[completed] Messerschmitt Bf 109E-4 and Bf 109 T-1

  • The E-4's nose frame has been shown several times already on different forums, but not yet -as far as I know- attached to the nose of a Halinski Messerschmitt in a "very far state of progress" =) -
    This nose frame contains some 18 pieces...( I added a second picture taken from beneath to show what this means) and that is the main reason for this picture: to the right are the four(!) formers that must (and will?) assure the shape and stability of the T-1's nose section...
    Now if these are not different concepts!
    To the right there is the machine gun unit together with the engine under construction.

  • I am very exited and waiting to see how the engine will be built into the T4. I think that may be another first - to see a reasonable correct engine compartment housing an extremely authentic model of the engine.

    I hope there aren't too many non-realistic formers in the T4. I'm thinking about other models too; and what method you could possibly envisage for shaping the engine cover parts of a model such as the Spitfire without unrealistic formers.

    Perhaps build up the complicated framework (like the Halinski E4) as a separate unit, then shape and join the covering parts WITHOUT glueing them to the framework, and then take those parts from the template made up by the framework, and transfer the shaped & glued enginge covering section to the model with the realistic engine already attached.

    I hope it is something like that you are going to demonstrate!

    - L.

    Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

  • Yes, that is pretty close to what will have to be the method for building the engine inside the T-1... The actual engine compartiment will contain only one former placed very close to the propeller shaft, thus leaving the engine free. But what will make things really complex is the fact that parts of the "clothing"of the nose must be removed before assembling: air intakes, exhausts, machine gun openings etc. So no simple "rings" to put together, but "parts of rings" - and all of this in the right shape... I will soon be showing in detail what I mean. First I will continue the T-1 engine.

  • Oh, goodie; what a nice engine. And I do look forward to see you solving the problems of mounting it, and getting it aligned properly for the skin parts to fit. Plus the prop & spinner fitting, of course. I wish you every bit of success. - L.

    Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

  • I see you liked the previous images... well, in that case you will certainly enjoy these =): the finished T-1 engine with the three coolant reservoirs and all other details in place and hung in its fire-wall frame.
    Don't ask me right now if this monster will fit inside the nose.... remembering Leifs words I see problems ahead at many points: will I ever be able to place the machine guns - very much 'embedded' in all these surrounding details on the engine's top- through the openings in the nose? And will the exhausts be at the proper places on the sides?
    And finally: will the oil cooler at the bottom fit in the air intake opening...
    Please be patient because:
    1) Now that we are reaching the finish line :) the E--4's nose needs some extra attention; it is far from being finished.
    2) I will have to do a lot of travelling during the next few days.

    See you all back soon.

  • I remember beginning last year that Cmdr Ted made also 2 Me109's side by side, one Orlik and one MM. Everybody thought he was crazy, but he came up with two beautiful models.

    Llink here: (note that pictures are not edited!!)

    So this is like a Déja-Vú with steroids.

    I just spent most of my day reading through all this thread, and checking the little details. I loved it!

    Keep it up!!

    Please no links directly to page with forbidden signs. Just set the link to the sites URL. Admin.

  • Now that I attached the nose section to the fuselage I realised what a risk I took by changing the normal working order of the E-4: as I explained earlier, a parallel build forced me to add the wings before fixing the nose...: even when proceeding as I did, the nose frame is easy to attach, but not the first "clothing ring" starting at point "a". Can you imagine how difficult it was to fix it at the exact position between the fuselage and the wing root... I hope that the picture shows well enough that mounting this part was a complete success. You know why? It was the incredibly exact fit of the parts involved in joining these sections of the fuselage, wing and nose part that saved me. So all credits go to the designer... :]

  • Good to see more progress.

    Is that some sort of particle board / wood that you are using to laminate parts to? It doesn't look like standard cardboard.

  • It is a very good, very dense quality 1mm cardboard and I get it for free at my... greengrocer's shop: it comes from empty boxes (often with round openings) used for certain tropical fruits. So go find yourself some vitamins there :)

  • The E-4's nose ready to receive the remaining details. I did not understand the meaning of three(!) strips (see "a"). I used only one of them to connect parts 35 and 36. Does anyone know? Same question for strips "b"; in my view this side of the parts must be "stumpf verklebt" with the round disk at the front of the nose that will support the propeller.

    Second picture: the T-1 with one of the nose parts that will litterally be cut to pieces to fit around the engine... One more former (about halfway the engine) will have to be suppressed when mounting the engine... Not a word about this in the instructions. How will I ever give these parts the right shape? 8o

  • Moin moin,

    Bei meiner Dewoitine hatte ich das Problem ja auch schonmal. In dem Bausatz waren ganz feine Spantenringe für diesen Fall vorgesehen.

    Aufjedenfall die Teile gut runden.
    Aufbauen könntest du sie über dem "normalen Spantgerüst" bauen aber halt nicht mit dem Gerüst verkleben.
    Zusätzlich könntest du Spantenringe aus Draht biegen, die dann dem Teil den halt geben.

    Vielleicht hilfts dir.

  • Marco's advice about the wire reinforcement, replacing a former, is intriguing; I've got to remember that.

    I have not done this kind of thing, but thinking about it I sort of envisaged building up the inner structure with formers and some kind of distance pieces in thick card to get the formers in their correct position.

    To be on the safe side, I was thinking about applying some ordinary office tape on the edges of the formers, to be absolutely sure that the cover parts won't glue to them.

    This will be interesting to watch... Good luck!


    Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

  • Very interesting suggestions indeed... and exactly treating the problems I might be dealing with during the next days:
    - former W3 (see "a") must be omitted completely to make place for the engine.
    - even former W2 (see "b") will certainly have to be modified (and here we get possibly close to the "ganz feine Spantenringe"mentioned by Ober Freak).
    - "c" shows the inner and outer clothing of one of the nose parts; not all sections have been removed yet on this picture. What gives me hope is the fact that two "layers" glued together and formed into the right shape (using the non-used formers) can still result into a relatively strong part.
    -the section to be removed in the inner skin part indicated by "d" is smaller then indicated on this part- I had to correct this.

    And finally: To the right is the finished nose of the E-4... beautiful, but...no engine inside :tongue:

  • Hello JC,

    This is the way of paper modeling I have been chasing after. Namely, exploit a characteristic of paper in modeling. It looks more real than plastic model.
    Great example!!!

  • Given your progress so far, I'm sure you are going to come up with a very presentable solution to this dilemna. I'm looking forward to seeing it ;)

  • :prost: =D> :yahoo:Amazing work! (bet you don't plan to try that again...)

    best regards
    mit herzlichen grussen


    In Build:
    Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

  • Hello and thanks for your positive reactions... without these, I would have given up long ago :]
    Today I managed to assemble the T-1's nose and fuselage, a tricky operation; like for the E-4, as I explained earlier, the working order for the T-1 too had been changed fundamentally: normally the building of the T-1 should have started with part 1: the front ring of the nose) and then working towards the rear.
    But it all went as I had hoped (and not really expected ;)) and I can now show my two friends (yes, they have both become my friends) side by side ready to receive their propellers and aerials/antennas:

  • At last - a really fine detachable engine cowling, with a detailed engine below; all in paper. Congratulations! - L.

    Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

  • Thanks you all for your kind words. I will soon be able to show pictures of the propellers under construction.

    One more word (to Leif and others) about the engine shield: as I told you earlier, I had hoped that the "two layer concept" would do the job -and it did! The T-1 offered inside parts for these shield sections and the trick is to glue the insides and outsides together without letting the glue dry and then, taking profit of the "wet cake' inside, carefully forming the pieces from the inside into their final shape using formers, rounded ends of ballpoints or anything else that can help. Continue until, after a few minutes, the glue gets dry and you will see that the parts keep their new shape. Sections that you cut out of these preformed parts will also keep the desired shape. I found out that, within certain limits, even 'hollow' (3D) shapes can be realized this way because the inner and outer layer 'control' one another.

  • You know the moment was near....: the E-4 and T-1 are ready - the mission is accomplished. I hope to have fulfilled the promise I did months ago to offer you a simultaneous build of these two models that, at that time, were both brand new.
    Don't expect any verdicts of me; I am an amateur, not a test-builder, and certainly not a professional (many of you could have built the models in a cleaner way then I did) so I leave it up to you to make any judgements.
    I think that about everything I wanted to say about the two Messerschmitts has been said during the thread. Therefore I will limit myself to a few final remarks:
    -at first sight, the T-1 might deceive when opening the package: an unforgiving camouflage that hides the many surface details all present like on the E-4. The finished model however is in my view at least as attractive as its counterpart.
    -strangely enough, for the T-1 only laminated parts on 1mm cardboard are requested; for many of these 0,5 mm would have been preferable.
    -the T-1 proposes beautiful extra options- I have tried to show them all- but hardly any alternative fuselage or wing parts to realize them; cutting out sections of the original dark coloured parts is a tricky business and is a complicating factor.
    - most of all: the Halinski E-4 is what you would expect it to be: perfect in design, perfect in print quality, perfect in fit and a joy to build. The T-1 fits very good too, but it is first of all a dream for the adventurous: those who prefer to find out things for themselves, for those who accept that the building instructions leave many questions unanswered, and for those who are not afraid of some minor adjustments to obtain the desired result. Therefore the T-1 is certainly more difficult to build but also more challenging after all.
    Some final pictures showing the result of all this; on the last one, the Morane Saulnier has come over to celebrate the birth of the two Messerschmitts... :]

  • JC, I liked your Morane so much I went and bought one. Great work all around! :prost:

    best regards
    mit herzlichen grussen


    In Build:
    Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

    Edited once, last by Royaloakmin ().