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Marian

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1

Saturday, June 10th 2006, 4:11pm

Skalpell

Hallo,

Neulich hatte ich in Mannheim HBf umzusteigen und habe dort am Bahnhof herumschlendernd einen Stand mit allerlei Werkzeugen gesehen. Aus spontaner Laune habe ich mir eine Kreuzpinzette (So ein "selbstfesthaltendes" Ding) gekauft.

Auch habe ich mir viele Skalpelle angeschaut die da so rumlagen - und mich ein wenig gewundert ob die sich am Bahnhof gut verkaufen, wer sie wohl so kauft, wofür und so weiter...

Für den Modellbau habe ich bisher mit primitiven Abbrechmessern aus dem Baumarkt gearbeitet. Zuerst noch viel mit der (Nagel-)Schere, aber mittlerweile fast ausschließlich mit dem Messer.

Und da dachte ich bei mir, ich könnte mir ja mal was gescheiteres zulegen, oder einfach was was gefährlicher aussieht. Mit der Leim-Kanüle mache ich schon regelmäßig Furore wenn ich mein "Besteck" auspacke :-).

Aber Skalpelle sind ja offenbar eine Wissenschaft für sich. Da gibt welche die man komplett wegschmeißt, oder wechselbare Klingen in Stahlhaltern. Und Klingen in vielen Formen, wobei dann die Halter jeweils passen müssen.

Ist ein Arzt oder Hobbychirurg im Raum, der das erklären kann? Oder kennt jemand einen Link wo man nachlesen kann? Sind die Bezeichnungen irgendwie standardisiert?

Ciao, MM

Ully

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Saturday, June 10th 2006, 6:52pm

Chirurgische Instrumente

Hi Marian!

Schau Dich einfach mal ein wenig im Netz um (Google), suche "Instrumente, Chirurgie, Zahnmedizin, Zahntechnik..." - da gibt's Informationen ohne Ende!
Z.B. guckst Du hier: http://www.heikowild.de/d/index.htm >Produkte

Viele Grüße - Ully
"Fröhlichkeit ist nicht die Flucht vor Traurigkeit, sondern der Sieg über sie."
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Leif Ohlsson

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Saturday, June 10th 2006, 8:41pm

Scalpel vs. breakoff blade

The funny thing is that scalpels, that are made for cutting into human tissue as sharply as possible, in fact are duller than break-off blades, at least that's what I find.

I have a past as a layout person in old-time offset technology, which was card modelling in a nutshell - you cut paper strips of text, images, etc. and glued up a newspaper or magazine page which was then photographed in a repro camera, copied on to offset printing plates, and printed.

We always used scalpels for that kind of work, so it was natural to use them for card modelling as well. When I took up cardmodelling again, a few years ago, the old offset technique was history. And I grew tired of changing expensive scalpel blades ever so often. Which made me decide to try out the break-off blade consistently.

I've never regretted that, until I recently started making models in 1/87. Then the thinner blade and sharper angle of the scalpel blade was a distinct advantage for the tiny details. To my surprise, however, I found that the scalpel was not as sharp as the break-off blade. Thinner, and sharper angle, yes - but not a sharper edge as such.

So I bought a simple grinding stone, and now I use the scalpel almost throughout for cutting out parts. But I sharpen the blade ever so often, perhaps as often as every tenth cut or so. Works well, but it continues to amaze me how sharp the break-off blade really is, and how long it lasts, comparatively.

Makes you think, when will we see surgeons change to break-off blades?
Leif Ohlsson has attached the following image:
  • Scalpel-breakoff.jpg
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

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Saturday, June 10th 2006, 11:19pm

perhaps never,leif....
because: when you cut in human tissue and the cut is too "sharp"
the edges wont heal properly.
in fact,if you have a stomach surgery for example,
the skalpell is only to cut the leather skin,and the fat below.
the rest will be opened very rough without a skalpell (with the fingers,and thats no joke),to make sure it heals properly.
therefore a skalpell is enough.... 8o
cheers peter


Ist Rechtschreibschwäche und grenzenlose Blödheit abmahnfähig?

Leif Ohlsson

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Sunday, June 11th 2006, 6:22am

Peter, how very nice to get an authoritatve explanation to something that at first sight would seem inexplicable! Great!

It all makes sense to me now. A sugeon sort of picks his way then, through layers of tissues, exploring for natural fault lines, and weakest parts, to divide it with the least harm done. The nearest equivalent from my everyday world would be parting mushrooms by hand instead of cutting them up, in order to minimize "bleeding" (of internal water) when you fry them.

This is so good. I take it that your everyday world includes finding your way through human tissue?

Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

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Sunday, June 11th 2006, 12:33pm

no,but i´ve had a skydiving accident and alot of surgery and time
to spend in hospitals.
thats why i know all these things.... ;)


Ist Rechtschreibschwäche und grenzenlose Blödheit abmahnfähig?

Marian

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Monday, June 12th 2006, 1:54pm

RE: Chirurgische Instrumente

Hallo,

http://www.heikowild.de/pdf/wild_skalpelle.pdf

Danke sehr, ich fühle mich schon ganz krank :-).

Das sieht ja schon so aus, als wären die Nummern irgendwie standardisiert. Jedenfalls tauchen die selben Zahlen für Klingen und Halter auch bei anderen Herstellern auf.

Thanks Leif for sharing your experience. If I get a scalpell I will share mine from the other perspective of having used less surgical tools most of the time.

Ciao, MM

Oliver Weiß

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Monday, June 12th 2006, 4:18pm

Enough guys - you're making me retch! Incidentally, my wife just finished nursing school - she never did grow tired of showing me the gruesome pictures in her books, just to see me cringe 8o

@Peter -- I was interested to learn that you can have a skydiving accident and live to tell the tale :D

My experience regarding scalpels, break-off cutters, and hobby knives (and I have tried about a dozen brands) is that you can find dull and sharp, good and bad in each category.

Much lies also in the way you use your tools - embarrassingly enough it took me quite a while to realize that I wasted blades simply by using the same tool for cutting thick and thin material. Now I keep two knifes, one for rough and the other for fine work. The blade I use only for fine work lasts me almost through an entire (small) model.

Regarding brands, I ended up with OLFA as my favorite choice. The blades aren't too expensive, are extremely sharp and have a long life. I use an OLFA break-off cutter for long straight cuts. They make blades for these in different degrees of sharpness, AAA being the sharpest. The OLFA hobby knife is pleasant to hold (at least for my hand) and you don't get tired after cutting a lot of small parts.

For some of the tiniest parts, ladders in 1:250 and such, I've cut razor blades to shape and clamped them in a pin-vise (as shown elsewhere by Pappelfips)

Cheers,

Oliver
  • FERTIG & JETZT ZU HABEN: Schaufelradschlepper "Anglia", 1866
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Monday, June 12th 2006, 5:02pm

well oliver,it was close but miracles do happen!
4 months in bed,and some titanium plates and screws ,and my pelvis is better than a new one.... :D
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  • pabloroe.jpg


Ist Rechtschreibschwäche und grenzenlose Blödheit abmahnfähig?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Peter P." (Jun 12th 2006, 5:05pm)


Gil Russell

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Tuesday, June 13th 2006, 5:58pm

Scalpels

On keeping things sharp:

I've found that a Dremel type tool is indispensable for keeping blades sharp especially Xacto and scalpel blades. I mount a hard felt buffing pad into the tool. While running at medium to high speed I apply polishing compound to the buffing pad. The pad is then used to "polish" both edges of the blade. Make doubly sure that the buff rotation is away from the blade and always wear eye protection. This technique extends blade life tremendously and puts the very best "edge" on the blade in question.

-Gil Russell
I got carded!

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Gil Russell" (Jun 13th 2006, 5:59pm)


jca245

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Monday, July 31st 2006, 2:14am

RE: Scalpels

Hello All-

I went one step further and cut myself circular leather disks that I mounted on the Dremel mandrel for the grinder disks. I coat with polishing compound and hone away...

Take care

Joe Aimetti
Kingsport, TN

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "jca245" (Jul 31st 2006, 2:15am)


Heiner

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Saturday, May 6th 2017, 8:49pm

Die Post war übrigens heute nachmittag da, und ich habe ein neues Schneidwerkzeug: den Klingenhalter Nr 3 rund (wichtig!!!) für Skalpellklingen, und als Zubehör die Klinge Nr. 10 a. Neben einer gewissen Eleganz, die das Ding verströmt (erinnert mich an alte Federhalter), kann man damit wirklich scharfe Sachen machen.Ich habe mal zum ausprobieren die Schiffsglocke an der "Wedel" ausgestochen und bin spontan begeistert: die Stange, an der die Glocke hängt, hat eine Stärke von 0,79 mm und wäre bisher bei mir eindeutig ein Fall für den Lasercutter gewesen...
Heiner has attached the following images:
  • Skalpellgriff Nr 3 rund mit Klinge 10a.jpg
  • Schiffsglocke.jpg
"THIS is NOT normal!" (John Oliver, Last Week Tonight)

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Sunday, May 7th 2017, 12:06pm

Hallo,
ich habe es auch mal mit dem Skalpell probiert, bin aber nicht so ganz begeistert. Erstens hatte die Klinge keinen lange Standzeit, war also schnell stumpf und dann lag das Werkzeug mir nicht richtig in der Hand. Ich bevorzuge für feine Ausschneidearbeiten die 30° Klinge von Olfas.
Ulrich

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Heiner

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Sunday, May 7th 2017, 1:22pm

Moin Ulrich!
Du hast sicher recht, was die Standzeiten der Klinge angeht, aber mich begeistert hier einfach die Handhabung. Ich kann beim Ausstechen den Griff in den Fingern drehen und muss nicht, wie bei einem Cutter, das ganze Handgelenk abklappen, das macht bei meinen Sticheleien eine deutlichen Unterschied - gerade in den Fensterrundungen blieben immer so blöde "Pinsel" stehen, und wenn die wegschneiden wollte, war nachher wieder die gerade Kante hin. Und die Klingenform reicht nicht so weit nach hinten, wie die Nr. 11, dadurch greife ich beim drehen nicht auf die Schneide, - das ist machmal auch ganz entspannend. Ansonsten nehme ich fast nur noch Scheren, von den geraden Schnitten mal ab, die mit dem Cutter am Lineal entlanggehen.
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  • Wedel 7.jpg
"THIS is NOT normal!" (John Oliver, Last Week Tonight)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Heiner" (May 7th 2017, 1:29pm)


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