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John

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1

Tuesday, December 27th 2005, 10:18pm

Pernstein Castle / Betaxa / 1:300 [FERTIG]

Hello,
I have begun Betexa's Pernstein Castle, published in 2003. The scale is 1:300.
The construction procedures for this Czech model are completely different from German and French designs which are platform built. The parts on this model do not extend down to the base. A rising part such as a ramp, rises and literally 'hangs' in the air, to be attached to other parts which are also suspended. The parts depend on each other to hold their position and shape. This will be modified. The parts will have added card pieces that will carry on down to the base.

These photos show the entrance ramp, bridge and gatehouse to this large model.
John has attached the following image:
  • Approach.jpg

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 22nd 2006, 1:21pm)


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2

Tuesday, December 27th 2005, 10:22pm

RE: Pernstejn Castle

Here is a shot looking back to the gatehouse.
John has attached the following image:
  • Ramp Up.jpg

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 23rd 2006, 12:29am)


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Tuesday, December 27th 2005, 10:34pm

built/gebaut: ABC - Arizona, M20, LT40, Sd. Kfz. 251/1,D, Zarkov - Dauphin Virgin HEMS Air Ambulance
current work/im Bau: Revenge 1588

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4

Tuesday, December 27th 2005, 11:06pm

Hi Radek,
Thank you so much for the links! Wonderful!
I wanted to illustrate the point made above about the different modelling styles: Part 96 is the German style. Note that although only the top portiion is printed, the part extends down to a base for solid support. The hand held part will depend on other elevated and unsupported parts to hold it in position. This is not a detractor to this model. It is easily remedied. The parts thus far are fitting very well. The castle itself has a most interesting footprint.
John

P.S. Part 96 is from Hohensalzburg Fortress - Schreiber-Bogen Modellbau (1:400)
John has attached the following images:
  • Building Style One.jpg
  • Building Style Two.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Dec 28th 2005, 2:48am)


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Tuesday, December 27th 2005, 11:16pm

Hallo John,

Deine Burgen und Schlösser sind einfach eine Augenweide für mich.
Möchte mich bei dir für diese Bauberichte und Bilder bedanken.

Your Castles and Estatates are a true pleasure for my eyes.
I would like to thank you for the building reports and the pictures.


Leider ist mein English grottenschlecht da kann ich mich nicht mehr schriftlich ausdrücken.

Unfortunetaly my capabilities in written English are of a too bad quality, therefore I am writing in German

Best Regards
Ernst
Bin jetzt ein GELIaner

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6

Wednesday, December 28th 2005, 2:41am

Hello Ernst,
Thank you for your comments. You are very kind.
John

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Wednesday, December 28th 2005, 8:51am

Quoted

Originally posted by John
Hi Radek,
Thank you so much for the links! Wonderful!
I wanted to illustrate the point made above about the different modelling styles: Part 96 is the German style. Note that although only the top portiion is printed, the part extends down to a base for solid support. The hand held part will depend on other elevated and unsupported parts to hold it in position. This is not a detractor to this model. It is easily remedied. The parts thus far are fitting very well. The castle itself has a most interesting footprint.
John


I believe that the "German style" was established by our famous model autor Arch. Richard Vyskovsky. He published plenty of models in ABC paper - the most popular is MPR - city historical reservation (???), and have his own publishing studio Erkotyp. The point is that all his models are constructed without computer and manually painted.

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Wednesday, December 28th 2005, 9:04am

Sorry - offtopic

But one picture is like thousand words...

(two pictures...)
Radek has attached the following images:
  • post1.jpg
  • post2.jpg
built/gebaut: ABC - Arizona, M20, LT40, Sd. Kfz. 251/1,D, Zarkov - Dauphin Virgin HEMS Air Ambulance
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Thursday, December 29th 2005, 8:01am

Your points about different design approaches are really interesting. They deserve to be preserved. At some point or other you might think about writing a separate thread on that and similar subjects. "A comparison of design techniques in architectural card models".

Good work.

Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

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Thursday, December 29th 2005, 8:20am

Hello John, I have been this summer with my family to Pernstejn castle and if I would make the model I would have a serious problem how to make the old-wet-cold air comming out of the stone-walls :)

Good luck at the building the model - looking forward for the progress in build. How about the paper quality? As far as I know - the paper of Betexa models is glossy - not so easy to glue parts.
It is normal to own ORIGINAL

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Thursday, December 29th 2005, 10:12am

It seems to me, that you'll building another castle in a great way.
But the argument of different ways in construction is very interesting.
Indeed, I've constructed a castle in the "platform" way.
It's time to explore the new ways. Thanks for inspiration.

greets
____________
Stephan
___________________________________________________
Kreativität beginnt im Kopf - und macht sich dann auf den Weg.
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im Bau: Gastons Fiat 509
Konstruktion: Fokker T-5
Konstruktion: Der Dom zu Trier - Auf Eis gelegt

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Stephan" (Dec 29th 2005, 10:14am)


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Saturday, December 31st 2005, 6:22am

Bernie,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with actually being in this castle. I take it the living conditions would leave something to be desired. I dream of these castles from afar Bernie. Some day...
Yes, the paper is glossy, but I have no trouble with white glue. Many structural elements need reinforcement to keep things plumb or horizontal.

Stephan,
Thanks for the positive post. Working with this building style of modelling is quite different. The Czech models are tricky to understand, but the different architectural syles of the many models are intriguing.

Cheers...John

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 23rd 2006, 12:40pm)


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Saturday, December 31st 2005, 12:46pm

Leif,
Yes, I have been addressing some of the different design approaches to architectural models in various threads here and on the old Cardmodel site. It would be good to draw everything together in one article. I really like the title you have supplied! Thank you.
I have written two model reviews this year and printed them for personal and complimentary use. They are not published in the public domain. Working on that.
JL

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Saturday, December 31st 2005, 1:07pm

Hi



There are in you castle ghosts ??? heheh ;) :D


Apart from that it is very interesting build


greeting

Michal

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Saturday, December 31st 2005, 2:21pm

Michal,
There may well be ghosts lurking in this build. I am in uncharted territory here. They may haunt me yet.
John

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16

Sunday, January 1st 2006, 3:39pm

Supporting Parts

Here is the part that was being held in the picture above but with an added piece of card that supports the rising wall and will allow the part to sit on a solid base plate. It no longer 'hangs' in the air awaiting addditional parts to support it.
This will become more important, I feel, as this model progresses. Pernstein continually rises like a citadel with buildings hanging to the skirts of the fortress walls as it rises.

One other note of interest with the design of this Czech model. There is no indication of which way to fold parts or in fact where the folds are. . It can take a bit of time and some head scratching, to figure out how to fold up some of the more complex pieces. No coloured tabs, arrow heads or 'x---x''s here!
John has attached the following image:
  • Supported Part.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 23rd 2006, 12:41pm)


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Sunday, January 1st 2006, 6:52pm

ad Czech models

There exist an old convention:

The bend lines to be engraved from bottom side of the paper are marked with dot-and-dash line (at the end of the line at least).

The bend lines to be engraved from upper side of the paper are marked with full line (and a small triangle at the end of the line).

The engraving is on the outer side of bending.


(rewriten from a model instructions - but not of Betexa :) )
built/gebaut: ABC - Arizona, M20, LT40, Sd. Kfz. 251/1,D, Zarkov - Dauphin Virgin HEMS Air Ambulance
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18

Friday, January 6th 2006, 3:12pm

A Different Approach

I would like to take a moment to expand on the different building style of the Czech models. As I have illustrated above, many walls on a Czech model do not extend all the way down to the base. For example, if a berm, knoll or grassy hill rises to meet an external wall, the wall will stop at the top of the external part - it does not continue on down to the base to be glued there by a tab. The tab is up in the air where the wall meets the external part. The wall depends on the external part and its tab to keep it in position.

There are two observations to be made here. First, the modeller has to get his head around how to fold the tabs at the bottom of such suspended walls. The convention has always been to fold tabs inward or away from you so that the wall can sit on a base with its tabs tucked under and glued down out of sight. With these models, the tab is folded OUTWARD or towards you. It will be glued under an external part coming to meet it. (The direction of fold on a Czech model is not indicated.)

Having worked with walls joined in this manner, I notice that it becomes difficult at times to keep walls vertical and plumb. Parts begin to rack or twist when they don't have vertical downward support. They tend to lean towards what is holding them. In the example above, a wall tends to lean toward a rising hill that is holding it in the air. If there is a roof to be glued above the wall, it can pull back the lean, but then that increases stress in the model that has to be relieved somewhere else. Mulitply this compensation a number of times and you see where things can begin to rack and twist.

In conclusion, having good vertical support in these models is desirable. A substructure is well worth considering in order to keep things under control.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Jan 12th 2006, 3:22am)


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19

Friday, January 6th 2006, 3:24pm

RE: A Different Approach

Here is the part shown in photos above now in place and supported.
John has attached the following image:
  • Support.jpg

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Friday, January 6th 2006, 3:29pm

RE: A Different Approach

This building seems to just snuggle into the hill and flow with the landscape. That, I think, is what makes these Czech models so visually interesting. But notice the inner part seems to defy gravity. There is actually a piece of card glued to the courtyard beyond the inner wall.
John has attached the following image:
  • Suspended.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Jan 6th 2006, 3:30pm)


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Friday, January 6th 2006, 3:36pm

RE: A Different Approach

Here is a final shot in this series showing the second part of Pernstein Castle ready to receive roofs and grassy areas.
We have not reached the central portion of this castle yet - these sections are simply approaches. The model has a small scale, but a large area.
John has attached the following image:
  • Moving on Up.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 22nd 2006, 1:22pm)


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Sunday, January 8th 2006, 1:24am

Here is a diagram of the first two sections of the castle...
John has attached the following image:
  • Diagram.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Jan 8th 2006, 1:39am)


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Sunday, January 8th 2006, 1:30am

These shots feature the first and second sections of Pernstein Castle joined. Overall, the parts fit extremely well. Reinforcing critical parts helps. The roof lines are most interesting on this model along with the rising courtyards. The buildings have every angle in them known to geometry as they follow the ground upward.
John has attached the following image:
  • Three.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 23rd 2006, 12:44pm)


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Sunday, January 8th 2006, 1:33am

Sections A & B..
John has attached the following images:
  • One.jpg
  • Two.jpg
  • Four.jpg

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Sunday, January 8th 2006, 1:34am

Sections A & B...
John has attached the following images:
  • Five.jpg
  • Six.jpg
  • Entrance.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Jan 8th 2006, 2:08am)


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Sunday, January 8th 2006, 2:47pm

The Completed Approaches

Here is a shot of the completed approaches to Pernstein Castle. We move now to the maze of buildings in the central fortress.
John has attached the following image:
  • The Completed Sections.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 22nd 2006, 1:22pm)


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Monday, January 9th 2006, 4:30pm

RE: The Completed Approaches

Hello John!
how many parts does the model really have? When i bought the St. Veits cathedral (also from Betexa) i thought there would be 100 parts. But i stopped counting at round about 400. For me this is a little bit too much to be build in a fortnight. ;)
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Monday, January 9th 2006, 4:52pm

RE: The Completed Approaches

Hello Nävchen,
Thank you for your inquiry. This castle is listed as having 180 parts. It is printed on 20 sheets. I am sure the count is conservative. Did you enjoy building St. Vitus? You can see my version of it at:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jmadill3/JLCardmodelling1/

Cheers...John

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Monday, January 9th 2006, 6:26pm

RE: The Completed Approaches

speaking of st. vitus... sorry for offtopic :)
pawell has attached the following image:
  • svaty_vit.jpg
P.

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Monday, January 9th 2006, 7:56pm

RE: The Completed Approaches

Hi Pawell,
Do not apologize. You are right on topic. The thread is discussing Betexa models in general as well as this specific build. St. Vitus is one of their flagship models. Thank you for the wonderful picture. A keeper!
Cheers...John

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31

Thursday, January 12th 2006, 2:48pm

Unmarked Folds

Onward to the core of the castle.
Here is an interesting part. It is a roof that could have nineteen folds in it. I speculate, because not one of them is identified. ( regular or reverse) This is what makes figuring out how to assemble some of the parts tricky. You can see the obvious folds such as the one near the part identification number 50. But what about the little triangular brown strip in the middle? I suspect that it is a vertical joiner between two sections of roof. That would mean one regular fold and two reverse folds OR two reverse folds and one regular fold. If you get it wrong, you could bend the part the other way. But paper does not like to be bound up by folding against the score line. You can rescore on the other side of the paper and change the direction of the fold, but you would be weakening the part. Scoring a part on both sides can cause the fold to separate.
Diagrams and photos help get things right the first time, but indicators would make things so much easier.
John has attached the following image:
  • part5.jpg

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Sunday, January 22nd 2006, 5:42pm

RE: Unmarked Folds

Got it wrong. The slender brown triangular piece is a flat joining section between three hip roofs. The card was thick enough to recore on the reverse side and fold the roof the other way.
John has attached the following image:
  • Roofs.jpg

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "John" (Jan 31st 2006, 12:49am)


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33

Wednesday, April 19th 2006, 8:42pm

A Return

The above entry in this thread was posted January 30, 2006. In the interim, I have been working on the Reims build. Yesterday, when I returned to this Betexa model, I really noticed a difference in the weight of the paper. Both German and French papers are light and easy to work. They score easily and bend to a clean, crisp edge. With this paper, or should I say cardboard, I have to bear down on the score line to make an impression. When folded, the edges are thick. On very small parts, the look is heavy. I have given up trying to form up sharper edges on the smaller parts of this model. I think just having come from the French model, I am more sensitive to the shortcomings of this material.

However, Pernstein is a most intriguing structure. Its 'Y' shaped fortifications and rising bastian give it wonderful site lines.

Well worth continuing for the architecture of the structure.

John

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 22nd 2006, 1:23pm)


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34

Wednesday, April 19th 2006, 10:19pm

RE: A Return

Hello John,
nice to see you back on Pernstein Castle.

If the cardboard is so thick, can't you split at least the flaps by cutting the backside of the bending line half through and throw away the backside of the cardboard-flaps!?
Hajo
Ein Leben ohne Kartonmodellbau ist möglich, lohnt aber nicht! (Frei nach Loriot)

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35

Wednesday, April 19th 2006, 11:02pm

RE: A Return

Hi Hajo,
Yes, in the leather industry I think that is called skiving - removing or paring down the surface of material to reduce its thickness. In this case it would be the back surface of the tab. It definitely is a possibility. I don't know if I want to slice down (or mistakenly through) the countless small tabs on the small parts.Thanks for the suggestion. I may just accept the material for what it is.

P.S. Later Note:
In retrospect, I think I may protest too much. A very sharp knife now cuts into the paper better to make the folds cleaner. However, the folds are still thick. Also, because the paper has a glossy surface, retouching these thick, matte edges with water colours really makes them stand out. In some areas, it's just better to leave the edges alone.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 22nd 2006, 12:30pm)


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36

Friday, April 21st 2006, 12:41pm

Tabs

The very first building I folded up to continue on, I folded the tabs the wrong way at the base of the wall. I have to get my head around the fact that this model is not platform built. The buildings don't sit on the courtyards with their tabs folded under them - they hang on them, with their tabs folded outward to hook under the courtyards. Like this...
John has attached the following image:
  • Below.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 21st 2006, 12:42pm)


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Friday, April 21st 2006, 12:43pm

RE: Tabs

So up above, they look like this...
John has attached the following image:
  • Above.jpg

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Friday, April 21st 2006, 12:51pm

RE: Tabs

In effect, the courtyard is holding the building up. The courtyard lays up against the base of the buildings.
John has attached the following image:
  • A Wall.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 22nd 2006, 12:19pm)


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Friday, April 21st 2006, 2:17pm

The Model to Date

Getting back on track to where the model stands right now, here are five summative shots.

One...

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Apr 22nd 2006, 1:26pm)


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Friday, April 21st 2006, 2:19pm

RE: The Model to Date

Two...


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