This website uses cookies. By continuing to use our site you declare your agreement. More Information

Dear visitor, welcome to Kartonbau.de - Alles rund um Papiermodelle, Kartonmodellbau und Bastelbogen. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

  • "Wolfgang Lemm" is male

Posts: 3,037

Date of registration: Dec 4th 2005

Occupation: Irgendwas mit Dipl.

  • Send private message

41

Wednesday, February 13th 2008, 1:29pm

RE: The Approaches

Quoted

Original von John
Here is a comparison between the model and a calendar photo of the castle.


Hi John,

Very nice! A good method to display model and 'original' - although it is already hard to decide on which is which ... ;)

Cheers
Wolfgang

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

42

Thursday, February 14th 2008, 10:26pm

RE: The Approaches

Thanks Wolfgang. The comparison really shows how the card models we build are so accurate in their depiction of the real thing. They truly are scale models.

Because the castle is going to be built in two parts that will slide together as seen in the Pernstein pictures, the joining parts have to be considered as construction goes along. In this photo, a shelf has been added just below the brown door. The green turf of the battlement ramp will slid over it when the approaches to the castle slide into place.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5693.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

43

Thursday, February 14th 2008, 10:46pm

Here we see how the wall of the next building is intended to be fastened to the ramp. As designed, its weight would bear down on the ramp. It would be unsupported from below. We will change this design. A card will reinforce the building wall and run right on down to the foundation. The tabs will be glued flat against the reinforced wall and a shelf coning up from the footings will support the ramp.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5694.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

44

Friday, February 15th 2008, 5:00pm

There needs to be a very stable reference line to determine the height of the building's foundation. This will be the top plane of the ramp.
1. The wall is made to stand plumb.
2. The ramp is reinforced to a horizontal plane perpendicular to the wall.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5697.jpg
  • IMG_5698.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

45

Friday, February 15th 2008, 5:03pm

3. The reinforcing card is set at the footing of the wall. It is held out by a card cut to the exact dimensions of the ramp above.
4. The top edge of the ramp is marked on the card.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5700.jpg
  • IMG_5701.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

46

Friday, February 15th 2008, 5:12pm

Here is the card prepared to be glued inside the skin of the building wall facing the ramp. The building will have to be completed before this card can be glued inside. Other cards will index themselves off this first one. When finished we should see a building about 6 cm off the ground.

This method has now established all future heights of buildings, terraces and courtyards as they climb up the rock promontory. They can all be 'anchored' to ground.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5703.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

47

Friday, February 15th 2008, 9:13pm

Folding Betexa parts can be a bit of a challenge. You have to study the diagrams provided on the sheets or pictures of the model very closely to figure out which way they fold. Other than a few red arrows, there are no indicators printed on the parts. And of course, if you get it wrong, it's often game over, because light cutting on the other side can cut through the tab. Then you become inventive.

I do not understand why this publisher has ignored convention in the regard.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5705.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

48

Sunday, February 17th 2008, 2:29pm

The building is the Imperial Palace. I wanted to check the height of its entrance. This is where the card with the reference line on it comes into play.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5708.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

49

Thursday, February 21st 2008, 2:46pm

Support

Here you see the typical Betexa 'sag'. Some parts just have to be joined together before foundation supports can be provided. But in the foreground is a green pier that will slip under the inner bailey to bring it horizontal to the ground.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5711.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

50

Thursday, February 21st 2008, 3:15pm

Artwork

Some of the artwork and the general colour rendering of this model is a bit of a step up for Betexa. There still is the minimal scribble for stone and other details, but the windows do show a bit of life in them. You can see the highlights here. Almost photo rendering?

The castle lends itself to some nice colouring. Robert Navrátil has a chance here to depart from the red tile roof- and render a dramatic slate roof. The half-timbered palace walls are a rich deep brown.

Early to tell, but the fit of parts seems to be bang on. The only odd spot I have noticed was where a doorway at the top of a landing was completely covered up by the thickness of a wall. A staircase comes up the wall, but there is nothing at the landing at the top. The door is covered by the wall. At first I wondered if I had put the wall in the wrong spot...

Edit: I have found out that this assembly is not the entrance approach to the castle. More on this later.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5688.jpg
  • IMG_5683.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Feb 24th 2008, 10:22pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

51

Thursday, February 21st 2008, 3:22pm

A Detail

You can see the light shining through the entrance to this inner bailey. In this photo, you can't see down into its inner spaces, but the bailey will have two sets of stairs against the walls. These little inner details add so much to the enjoyment of architectural building.

Notice that Betexa prints on the back of their sheets. (?)
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5713.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

52

Saturday, February 23rd 2008, 8:50pm

Rising Ramparts

The curtain walls on this side of the castle rise steadily to a height of over 18 cm.
You can see the unsupported section hanging in the breeze!
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5714.jpg
  • IMG_5715.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

53

Saturday, February 23rd 2008, 8:54pm

RE: Rising Ramparts

Notice in the two previous shots that the castle is glued down to a card base. I find this most important with these Betexa models that rise to great heights with unsupported parts below. It seems to be the only way to nail things down so that you can keep everything plumb and work from something solid that has already been placed. You will notice that I use a little machinist's square. Very helpful.

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

54

Saturday, February 23rd 2008, 8:57pm

Gates

Some of the inner spaces on this model remind me of Burg Eltz.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5717.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

55

Saturday, February 23rd 2008, 9:01pm

Turning a Corner

This is probably one area of the castle that could be the turning point for either success or failure with this model. It is difficult to add the green ground part around the tower. It comes around half the tower (the second completing half) and then takes off up the high ramp. You can see the twist and tension in the part. I think I would have cut it off at the tower and start another piece up the rampart...
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5719.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Feb 23rd 2008, 9:03pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

56

Saturday, February 23rd 2008, 9:06pm

Staircase to Nowhere

Earlier I mentioned the little staircase that went nowhere. Here it is. The door is in the wall. However, I think I see some bricked up windows here - I wonder...
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5720.jpg
  • IMG_5721.jpg

günter

Professional

  • "günter" is male

Posts: 1,468

Date of registration: Sep 16th 2004

Occupation: Lehrer

  • Send private message

57

Saturday, February 23rd 2008, 10:10pm

Hello John,
could it be, that what you call a staircase is supposed to be a roof?

Greetings

Gunter
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gruß

Günter

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

58

Saturday, February 23rd 2008, 10:31pm

Well of course! I hadn't thought of that. You see, there was a door printed right on the facing wall below the wallwalk. It's completely covered up. Interesting that the artist would render a door with frame and sill to be completely hidden.

However, your observation makes sense. This could well be a shingled roof cover for the arcaded space below. Thanks Gunter.

John

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

59

Sunday, February 24th 2008, 5:16pm

Mind the Gap!

" Watch your step when you get to the top..."
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5723.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

60

Sunday, February 24th 2008, 10:31pm

Some Research

The following photos taken by Bill and Nancy Lively shed light on something I could not figure out. I have been calling the first section of the castle I build as the entrance approaches to the castle. But there was no entrance door or gate of any kind in the first tower with the wedge roof.

Actually, that first tower is the last and furthest tower from the centre of the castle. It is the well tower. Bill explained that a rope was lowered 250 feet down to draw water in that tower.

(Permission granted to post these personal photos by Bill Lively.)
John has attached the following images:
  • 30700-Karlstein-Castle-0.jpg
  • 30702-Karlstein-Castle-0.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

61

Sunday, February 24th 2008, 10:35pm

RE: Some Research

Here is the entrance to the castle. I won't get to it until the model is almost completed.
John has attached the following image:
  • 30698-Karlstein-Castle-0.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

62

Monday, February 25th 2008, 3:42pm

I have come upon a bit of a problem area in the construction. Uwe Jäger mentioned this part of the model in his construction report:
Burg Karlstein / Betaxa / 1:300

It could be a design flaw. In my case, the roof of the palace had to brought forward to fit into the roof space provided. This brought it too far over the tower. It will have to be cut back to fit the tower's conical roof. Not looking forward to that.

The other two photos detail a means of insuring that chimneys stand plumb. Most often the angle printed on the chimney part is not accurate. Chimneys usually tip forward. I use a test strip of card and keep cutting the pitch angle of the roof until the card stands plumb when placed against the roof. The angle is then transferred to the chimney part.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5727.jpg
  • IMG_5729.jpg
  • IMG_5726.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Feb 25th 2008, 3:44pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

63

Tuesday, February 26th 2008, 2:14pm

Novelty Shot

This morning I noticed the light from the kitchen shining through the open gate below the main courtyard of the castle. The model sits on a display cabinet in the family room. I couldn't resist taking a shot...
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5731.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

64

Wednesday, February 27th 2008, 3:56pm

The Imperial Palace

This section of the castle is nearing completion...
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5733.jpg
  • Imperial Palace.jpg

Royaloakmin

Professional

  • "Royaloakmin" is male

Posts: 900

Date of registration: Oct 24th 2006

  • Send private message

65

Wednesday, February 27th 2008, 6:56pm

John, this will be very impressive when finished. I have just struggled through a top-down design castle, and I can now clearly see the benefits of your skillful re-engineering. =D>

regards
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

In Build:
Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

66

Thursday, February 28th 2008, 12:25pm

Thank you for the kind comment Fred. This model interests me greatly.

Hagen, it is so good to see your helm again! We share a love of castles.

Building a solid substructure under the main courtyard is really beginning to pay off. It provided a flat, stable working surface for new parts. When Marian Tower is built, it will stand vertical and plumb on solid ground. I posted a picture of the substructure of Rheinstein Castle again. It was the inspiration for Karlstein's courtyard substructure.

In this photo (left) you can see the tall staircase rising up to the top of the breast wall. The height of the courtyard up there will be 15 cm above baseline. It will receive another substructure.

Notice how the right side of the curtain wall wall is twisting. This shows the forces that are at work in parts when they are joined to something on only one of their sides. I am tempted to touch that wall and gently draw if forward and plumb. Something to look forward to later...
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5739.jpg
  • IMG_1439.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Feb 29th 2008, 7:18pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

67

Friday, February 29th 2008, 7:13pm

Second Courtyard

The second courtyard is developing...
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5741.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

68

Saturday, March 1st 2008, 2:50pm

Outward Appearances

The exterior skin of this second courtyard wall is readied for application.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5742.jpg
  • IMG_5746.jpg
  • IMG_5751.jpg
  • IMG_5752.jpg
  • IMG_5753.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

69

Saturday, March 1st 2008, 7:16pm

RE: Outward Appearances

It has been my experience that when gluing an exterior skin of a battlement wall over an interior one, the merlons and crenels tend to get out of step with each other. If there is a fold or a bend around a corner involved, the effect is magnified. This creeping error will just continue unless it is corrected. I find it best to choose a fold and cut the outer skin off. It can then be adjusted to line everything up again.

Can you see where the cut was made in this long wall? The join will stay open until the rest of the outer skin is glued to the inner one.

Another solution is to glue up the inner and outer walls to make a single unit. I did that with the wall on the other side of the castle - do you remember the twist?
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5755.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

70

Saturday, March 1st 2008, 8:32pm

Hi Norm,
Like this...
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5758.jpg
  • IMG_5759.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 1st 2008, 8:38pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

71

Sunday, March 2nd 2008, 3:10pm

Courtyard work...
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5761.jpg
  • IMG_5762.jpg
  • IMG_5765.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

72

Sunday, March 2nd 2008, 4:07pm

The upper courtyard that will surround the 'Big Tower' is complete.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5768.jpg
  • IMG_5769.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

73

Sunday, March 2nd 2008, 4:08pm

I ran out of wall when I reached the top! A 3mm piece had to be added on one side.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5771.jpg
  • IMG_5770.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 2nd 2008, 4:11pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

74

Sunday, March 2nd 2008, 10:17pm

The courtyard sections of the castle are complete.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5780.jpg
  • IMG_5781.jpg
  • IMG_5783.jpg
  • IMG_5782.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

75

Sunday, March 2nd 2008, 10:21pm

The fit of parts so far has been quite good. The quality and weight of the paper do make clean, crisp joins difficult to achieve. There may have been a design flaw in the length of the long walls coming up to the last parapet.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_5774.jpg
  • IMG_5784.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 2nd 2008, 10:23pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

76

Monday, March 3rd 2008, 3:57pm

The Promontory

Karlstein Castle sits high on the summit of a rugged, scrub covered rocky promontory.
(Permission to post photos granted by B. Lively)
John has attached the following images:
  • On the Promentory.jpg
  • On the Top.jpg
  • The Well Tower.jpg
  • Toward the Gatehouse.jpg
  • Up There.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 3rd 2008, 3:57pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

77

Monday, March 3rd 2008, 4:00pm

RE: The Promontory

So now it's time to replicate that rocky, grass covered ground. I wish to keep this model true to the paper form. There will be no faux grass covered paper or plastic trees.

We begin here...
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5786.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

78

Monday, March 3rd 2008, 9:48pm

Going 'Green'

Problems right off the bat with the first piece of ground skin. There is no way this part is going to fit. I hope this is not a portent of things to come... It's back to the drawing board.

I'll have to start around the corner and work back to this piece. It probably will have to be cut up and put in in pieces. The trick will be to get clean butt joints (not overlaps).
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_5787.jpg

  • "Wolfgang Lemm" is male

Posts: 3,037

Date of registration: Dec 4th 2005

Occupation: Irgendwas mit Dipl.

  • Send private message

79

Monday, March 3rd 2008, 10:02pm

Hi John,

I´m following your construction closely, this is going to be an impressive piece of architecture!
And your report is very instructive - seems that you cannot hide your profession ... :D

Good luck with the ground skins!

Cheers .... Wolfgang

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

80

Tuesday, March 4th 2008, 1:23pm

Hi Wolfgang,

Thank you for your kind comments.

The ground skins have stalled me for awhile. They are quite complex in that they are all interconnected and dependent on each other. On the other side of the model, a piece of ground changes into a wall that is needed in an exact spot. A pathway leads to a tower, but must meet the angles of ground coming to it on both sides. It is not just a case of gluing the skin to the castle walls at the top and letting them slope down until their lower tabs touch the ground. You have to think of the mating side angles for the next part so that it will land on target.

It would be easy to just start at one point as I was planning to do and progressively work around the model. Since there is no footprint, you could quickly end up way off course. Nasty surprises could await you when you come around the next corner. There is noting to guide you until you have all the parts thought out. Quite a challenge. I love it.

I think it will be a few days before you see another post!

Cheers...John

1 user apart from you is browsing this thread:

1 guests

Social bookmarks