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John

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1

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:17pm

Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350 - FERTIG

Model: Karlstein Castle
Publisher: Betexa
Copyright Date: 2006
Number of Sheets: 18
Number of Parts: 120 approx.

This Czech Republic castle is famous. It represents all the classic charm of a medieval fortress located on high ground. The model was built on this forum by Uwe Jäger, but I understand the ground surrounding the castle was never completed.
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  • IMG_5610.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 21st 2008, 3:46am)


Yu Gyokubun

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Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:26pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

Hi John,

If my question is stupid, please excuse me.
May I ask "ground surroundings" means conifers and weed on inclined surface?

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3

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:27pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

This is not an easy castle to build. Betexa does not include a baseplate of any kind and the construction is unconventional. Most card model designers build their models up from a baseline. Walls rise from a solid foundation. Raised portions of buildings are either supported from below with a substructure or the parts are extended down to the base with white, unprinted regions.

For example, here are two pictures of a substructure being used to elevate and support the upper regions of Rheinstein. (Schreiber)
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  • Rheinstein Base.jpg
  • On Base.jpg

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Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:35pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

Hi Yu,
Good question. The surrounding ground in this case would be a high hill, mountain or summit. Castles were preferably built on high ground for defensive purposes.

Here is an example of how unprinted regions of parts extend down to the foundation or base of the model: (Pascaline)
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  • IMG_5532.jpg
  • IMG_5533.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Jan 31st 2008, 4:36pm)


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5

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:41pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

And here is another example of how only the upper region of the building will be visible when other parts are attached in front. Again, the part extends right down to the foundation.
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  • IMG_5536.jpg

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6

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:45pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

Now let's have a look at Betexa's design.

You will see that the rising wall printed on the sheet I am holding in my hand, will literally 'hang' in the air when it is cut out. No card extends down to the base.
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  • IMG_5609.jpg

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7

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:49pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

To be fair, do you see the part that does have a white region along the baseline in the photo above? Part 4 will be nice and solid with a firm footing.

But look at this (part 40) wall...
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  • Rising Ground.jpg

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8

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 4:58pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

So therein lies a weakness, in my humble view, in the Betexa design of walls where they meet ground.

Here is how German card model designers have ground attach itself to a wall. The tabs will be on the tops of the ground parts and they will glue themselves to the wall at the top of the unprinted line.
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  • Extending Down.jpg

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9

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 5:05pm

RE: Karlstein Castle, Betexa, 1:350

But with Betexa walls, the tabs on the bottom of the walls bend outward. The ground comes up to the wall and glues itself to the wall tabs.

I'm not an engineer, but it makes sense that an unsupported wall, hanging in the air is going to bend under stress to a ground piece pulling on it from one side. The wall tips, until counterparts are glued on the other side of the wall. Also, the modeller has to support that wall up on something until additional parts are added. Things can go wonky, or 'out of plumb'.

I hope to address these issues in this build.

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10

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 6:03pm

The Castle

Hi Yu,
You asked about the ground surroundings - conifers and weed on inclined surfaces. Here's a couple of actual photos of the castle that will show that you were right on the money.

These pictures were taken by Bill and Nancy Lively when they visited the castle in 2005. I would like to thank Bill for allowing me to use his excellent photographs in this build.

Here he is in a field with the castle at his back.
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  • 30693-Bill-with-the-Karlstein-Castle-in-the-background-0.jpg

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11

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 6:07pm

RE: The Castle

And two more shots showing the rugged, high elevation of the castle and the scraggy terrain.
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  • 30696-Karlstein-Castle-0.jpg
  • 30697-Karlstein-Castle-0.jpg

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Thursday, January 31st 2008, 7:21pm

John, if I got it well, Karlstein construction is similar to Schreiber’s Eltz castle – top to bottom and the inside parts don’t go down to base level. It is somewhat weird because the half-completed model doesn’t stand up on a flat and level surface!
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  • Eltz-I2.jpg

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13

Thursday, January 31st 2008, 9:07pm

Ricardo, I had forgotten about the elevated sections of Eltz. I'm sure we'd both agree it was a wonderful build.

I think the first time I'd ever come across wall tabs bending outward at their bases was with Betexa's Pernstein Castle. I could be wrong. I think the eleven or so sections of Eltz had tabs of supporting parts glued to them. The assemblies clustered to support each other.

Karlstein is a little different. The outer curtain walls are not stable structures like at Eltz, but unsupported flimsy walls depending totally on unsupported ground coming up to them.

You're right. It was a top/down build.

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14

Friday, February 1st 2008, 12:01am

Hi John,

A new construction report :yahoo:

Good to see something coming from you.

Greetings from Vienna, Herbert

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15

Friday, February 1st 2008, 12:22am

Hi John,

Thank you very much for your kind and detailed explanation.
I appreciate it and am looking forward to seeing your build.

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16

Friday, February 1st 2008, 10:13am

Quoted

Originally posted by John
... I'm sure we'd both agree it was a wonderful build...

We do :)

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17

Friday, February 1st 2008, 3:23pm

Thanks Yu.

Ricardo, I wish it was easier for me to order Marino models from Hamburg. The overseas shipping is extremely expensive from Moduni. They are not stocked on this side of the pond. I'm really enjoying the development of Catedral de Palencia.

Hello Herbert,
I've been spending some time finishing Montmartre to inculde in the Storage Box/Display Base article and assembling two more Mac books. It's been some time since I've built a castle...

Cheers...John

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18

Friday, February 1st 2008, 7:41pm

John, I am building Kunamoto Castle (Canon) and it is also top-down construction. I am finding that it makes straight and true alignment very difficult.

regards.
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

In Build:
Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

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19

Wednesday, February 6th 2008, 4:08pm

Hi Fred,
Yes, keeping everything plumb can be a challenge when stress starts to cause torsion.

Since I have chosen to build this model from the ground up, I chose the lowest portion of the castle I could find. Even the first ramp up was designed to 'hang' with tabs in the walls bent outward. Instead, the tabs were allowed to run on down 'to ground' with added uncut paper below the tabs. Like this...
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  • IMG_5616.jpg

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Wednesday, February 6th 2008, 4:10pm

Here is the ramp...
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Wednesday, February 6th 2008, 4:15pm

Without the tabs, a shelf can be glued to the inner wall instead. Its upper edge proves the bearing surface for the ramp. With this system, you have full control over the placement of the ramp with fitting and with gentle downward pressure during application. Here is the ramp dry fitted on the shelf.
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  • IMG_5623.jpg
  • IMG_5624.jpg

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Wednesday, February 6th 2008, 4:18pm

Oops, I forgot to show the shelf. Here it is (green card). Notice that it is not just a strip of card acting like a hanger. It is a full piece of card running down to the foundation. I find that this makes it easier to get its height just right. You can keep trimming the bottom edge until the top edge falls on or just under the line of the ramp.
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  • IMG_5626.jpg

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23

Wednesday, February 6th 2008, 4:19pm

Hi John,

Inspired by your modeling I have placed order for three architecuture kits.
While waiting delivery I will follow your thread for image training.

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24

Thursday, February 7th 2008, 4:02pm

Hello Yu,
I'm sure you will enjoy the architectural builds. Your card modellling skills need no training Yu. You are a master of fine detail.

Here is a shot of the completed first approach to the castle.
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  • IMG_5636.jpg

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Friday, February 8th 2008, 10:28am

I very much like the shelf method, John :) Using a thick shelf means that it is easy to put the glue there, and not in the ramp. It is a sure way to avoid the risk of spilling glue onto the upper wall, while putting the ramp in place. I bet this was the method you used ;)

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Friday, February 8th 2008, 3:47pm

Yes, Ricardo, shelves make sense. I can't stand trying to press a part down into place against flimsy tabs that will cave in with the pressure. You'd have to be able to get under the tab to hold them up while the gluing pressure from above is applied. This is not always possible. With a shelf, you have total control - especially when trimming the part to fit where all four sides must bear against walls without leaving a gap.

Here is the second part of the approach to the castle attached to the first. Upon closer inspection, the ramp of the first section is really a set of stone steps rising up the grassy slope. The second is a little grassy terrace with more walkway into what will be an open gateway in the next part.
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  • IMG_5641.jpg
  • IMG_5643.jpg

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "John" (Feb 8th 2008, 8:49pm)


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Friday, February 8th 2008, 8:48pm

Another advantage of using a shelf to support flat regions such as courtyards at their edges where they meet vertical surfaces, is that you can reinforce the flat region with 1mm card easily. You do not have to worry about tabs. You actually cut them off. In the example below, two tabs are to be left on the courtyard, so they are folded first. The reinforcing card does not interfere with them.

This polygonal courtyard will have to fit four surrounding walls. It will just drop into place if all goes well.
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  • IMG_5645.jpg

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Friday, February 8th 2008, 9:34pm

Here are a series of shots showing the installation and testing of a shelf for the grey courtyard shown above. You can see the trial line drawn below the intended top surface of the courtyard. This lower line allows for the thickness of the reinforcing card with the courtyard skin bonded to it.
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  • IMG_5648.jpg

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Friday, February 8th 2008, 9:36pm

A trial placement of the courtyard on the shelf from below...
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Friday, February 8th 2008, 9:37pm

...and above.
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Friday, February 8th 2008, 9:54pm

Now, let's have a look at the outside of this wall. Another thing is happening here. You will remember that I made a big issue of carrying support right down to the foundation for parts intended to be suspended in air until other parts are attached to them.

Here's my first attempt at doing this. My finger is holding the tab bent outward. It will be later attached to a rising grass rampart. But behind it is the continuation of a reinforcing 1mm card wall down to the base. Spray adhesive is used to attach the skin of the wall to the card. If the entire card were sprayed, the tab bent outward would not make contact. But it could be later inadvertently pressed against the sticky wall. Therefore, the region behind it is masked off before the glue is sprayed on. Therefore, there will be no glue behind the tab. The 1mm card is left long at first and then trimmed off at ground level.
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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 3:43pm

The Burgraviate

The third stage of the approach to the castle is complete.
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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 3:46pm

RE: The Burgraviate

Notice the stairwell and the staircase leading up to the terrace. This is a nice detail on this model.
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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 3:49pm

RE: The Burgraviate

Here is a shot looking down the stairwell. You can see the landing at the bottom and the light coming in from the open archway.
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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 3:56pm

RE: The Burgraviate

These final two pictures of the section of the castle show the substructure of card that was built up to support the courtyard or terrace and the building. Originally, no support was intended at all. The building was to be held up by tabs on the courtyard. There was no underpinning support for the courtyard. In my mind's eye, I could see the two of them - the building and the courtyard sagging downward.

Of course there later would be support at the open end of the courtyard where it would lead into the main gate of the bastion, but since this is a progressive build from the bottom up, I wanted each section to stand on its own and have a solid foundation.
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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 11:27pm

The Approaches

Now the three parts of the castle approaches come together. From this angle, what we are seeing could be a complete fortified manor house.
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  • The Approaches.jpg

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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 11:30pm

RE: The Approaches

Here is a comparison between the model and a calendar photo of the castle.
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  • A Comparison.jpg

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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 11:33pm

RE: The Approaches

The approaches to Karlstein Castle involve rising elevations and a series of portals.
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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 11:38pm

RE: The Approaches

This system reminds me very much of Pernstein Castle seen here. At Pernstein you would have to pass through three gatehouses and cross two bridges before entering the inner ward.
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Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 11:45pm

RE: The Approaches

Karlstein will be very big. Its footprint is actually too large to be comfortably displayed in my home. Therefore, I will build it in two pieces just like the Pernstein build.

You can see the raw joining tabs in the left photo. On the right the tabs are coloured. Building Karlstein like this should save a lot of space.
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  • The Join.jpg
  • The Parts.jpg

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