Ricleite

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 3:02pm

[Fertig] BAC Lightning - Fly Model (1:33)

My very first Fly Model will be a rather substantial beast - the BAC Lightning :) The model has 5 A3 colour pages, 4 pages of parts to be reinforced and some pages of diagrams. The total number of parts is close to 1000! I guess that should be enough to keep me happy for a long time...
Ricleite has attached the following images:
  • Lightning-C01.jpg
  • Lightning-C02.jpg
  • Lightning-C03.jpg
  • Lightning-C04.jpg

Walter

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 4:38pm

This will be an amazing model!

I like the looks of the Lightning, because everything on it is different than any other Jet (fuel tanks on top of the wings, wing form...).
I will follow your thread with high interest, as some day, I also want to build this model.

You can find some pictures of the Lightning build by Hans-Jürgen Haberer on my homepage www.kartonmodellbau.net - here is the direct Link to it

Wishing you all the best for your build! And by the way - Happy birthday!!!

Greetings,
Walter
Der Weg ist das Ziel...

www.kartonmodellbau.net
Aktueller Baubericht: Western River, Draf

Günni

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 5:29pm

Hi Ricleite

I would very much look forward to a construction report of the BAC Lightning :super:

Greetings,
Günni
Kartonbau.de
...mein Forum

Ricleite

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Tuesday, May 27th 2008, 10:17am

Thanks, Walter and Günni :)
I agree with you Walter - the Lightning is definitely one of a kind! Your very nice pictures shows it perfectly. Thanks for the link ;)
As it is often the case with me, I started with the more tedious work, before getting to the difficult one. The reason why there are so many parts is already becoming clear. Each wing of the Red Top missiles has 3 parts! 3x4(wings)x2(missiles) go up to 24...
Fly Model has a pattern for a rolled paper part, to put inside the missiles. I choose to split it into 3 - front, middle and rear. The pattern would require thinner paper than the usual 80g/m2.
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  • Lightning-C05.jpg
  • Lightning-C06.jpg

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Tuesday, May 27th 2008, 3:09pm

This will be very interesting.

I will be watching very closely. 8)
Regards,

Diamantino

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Tuesday, May 27th 2008, 10:13pm

Hello,

I am very interested in your build of the Lightning as i am also
making the same model at present by Flymodel.

But i have increased the size to 1/16th scale!

Ricleite

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Wednesday, May 28th 2008, 10:00am

Quoted

Originally posted by keith harle
...But i have increased the size to 1/16th scale!

So, you will end up with a model more than 1m long 8o
The Red Tops are complete :)
On, now, to the rocket launchers...
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  • Lightning-C07.jpg
  • Lightning-C08.jpg
  • Lightning-C09.jpg

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Wednesday, May 28th 2008, 10:52am

Good morning,

Your build is looking very good and accurate.
I have started with the internal frames for my own model
and this is taking quite an amount of card already.

Together with scanning and enlarging the pieces i expect
this to take some time but a nice model when complete.

Good luck with your model and thankyoufor the good
pictures.

Best regards,
Keith.

Yu Gyokubun

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Wednesday, May 28th 2008, 2:30pm

Having followed your construction report so far, I knew your preference is dome like object!!!

Nice build!!!

Ricleite

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Thursday, May 29th 2008, 10:16am

@ Yu - Bring me domes till 'domesday' comes :D :D :D
@ keith - I see what you mean: by getting from 1/33 to 1/16 you will, broadly speaking, need four times the area of card with double thickness! If the original model has 4 A3 pages to reinforce, you will get to 2 square meters!!! No surprise to notice that you'll need some time (and a lot of physical work =)) to cut all that card...
Today's pictures show the rocket launchers at several construction steps. The idea of gluing the tabs to the inside formers worked well but it is a risky one. If the assembly comes out too large, it is nearly impossible to adjust. It is surely wiser to glue the tabs inside the parts and put the formers latter, trimmed if needed.
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  • Lightning-C10.jpg
  • Lightning-C11.jpg

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Thursday, May 29th 2008, 9:49pm

Hello and thank you for the latest pictures,they are most helpfull
and see you are making good progress.
Yes the tabs and formers would work better as you suggest.

I hope there are enough tress left for me to complete my model
in 1/16th scale!
I have actually sat in a real Lghtning F6 and it is a very special plane
i must say.

Good luck with the next step of the build and will watch with
interest.

Best regards,
Keith @)

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Thursday, May 29th 2008, 10:21pm

supi......

great model, very good work.....

i see you.....

bd
robert
hhmmmmmmm, interessant....... :-)

im Bau:
Me 262 von GELI 1:33


Mi 17 von GPM

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Friday, May 30th 2008, 10:06am

You're welcome, keith and rf-fotowelt :) I envy you for having sat on a real Lightning!
The rocket launchers have a lot of small parts that will link them to the pylons. In fact, they look too small to allow a proper gluing surface ?(
Maybe superglue will do the trick, but there is a lot to do first...
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  • Lightning-C12.jpg
  • Lightning-C13.jpg

Yu Gyokubun

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Saturday, May 31st 2008, 6:04pm

These small parts remind me of a lot of rivets you made for steam locomotive last year. I love rebate.. No ah yes I love.. Ah I love rivets and small parts that you have made beautifully

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Tuesday, June 3rd 2008, 10:12am

@ Yu - well, the positive point is that there are not so many 'rivets' here :). The negative one is that I didn't find the exact diameter puncher :(. The rivets had to be cut with my trusty knife. The tip of the knife is just visible in the picture.

The pylons for the rocket launchers are T-shaped, as each pylon holds 2 rocket launchers.
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  • Lightning-C14.jpg
  • Lightning-C15.jpg
  • Lightning-C16.jpg

John

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Tuesday, June 3rd 2008, 1:32pm

Hi Ricardo,
I never cease to be amazed with the light touch you have with paper. The parts seem to just fall together with gentle ease.
John

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Wednesday, June 4th 2008, 10:19am

You are most welcome, John and Norman :) Thanks a lot for your comments!
The Lightning was regarded as a point interceptor and the first models had a combat radius of just around 240km. It is not a surprise that this shortfall was addressed in latter versions. The external, overwing, fuel tanks are part of the answer. Increased belly tank was another, as well as a detachable refuelling probe.
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  • Lightning-C17.jpg
  • Lightning-C18.jpg

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Wednesday, June 4th 2008, 10:03pm

Hello again,

Your work just gets better and better.
The work for me gets harder and harder!
I have just about enlarged the first page
of parts to 1/16th scale now and ready
to begin pasting down and cutting the
first parts.

I hope my work will be to your standard.
Your pictures show much care and as
always the quality.

Thankyou for the latest pictures.

Best regards,
Keith.

Ricleite

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Thursday, June 5th 2008, 2:35pm

Looking forward to seeing your pictures, keith :) BIG pictures ;)
The bombs are more of the same. I used the usual rolled paper strip for the nose. Fly Model's solution for the bomb's nose is not my favourite. I'd prefer 3 or 4 conical sections instead of a single part with 10 slices. The amount of visible edges (black lines) would be smaller and less conspicuous. But that's how life is...
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  • Lightning-C19.jpg
  • Lightning-C20.jpg

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Thursday, June 5th 2008, 8:39pm

Hi Ricardo,

Fantastic work + pictures again!
How do you do the rolled paper for the tips of the tanks?
It looks a good solid job when done.

I am hoping to post some pictures soon i have taken much
time in printing up so far so once i can get moving on the
construction there will be good progress i hope.

Will wait with great interest for your next part of the
construction.

Kind reagrds,
Keith.

Ricleite

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Friday, June 6th 2008, 10:09am

Hi Keith,

You can see here where I first used the rolled paper strips:
U-Boot Hecht and Molch - GPM
For me, it works pretty well :)
The bomb's pylons are simpler than those for the rocket launchers. They will sit above the main wing pylons. The link is achieved by bits of wire, placed in the small holes visible in the picture.
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  • Lightning-C21.jpg
  • Lightning-C22.jpg

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Tuesday, June 10th 2008, 11:02pm

Hello Ricardo,

I have just completed the scaling up of the first page on
the fuselage formers and now fixing to the card stock.

The cutting and construction can then begin and after
setting out the completed pieces can now see the
completed length will some 102 cms!

Best regards,
Keith.

Ricleite

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Wednesday, June 11th 2008, 3:06pm

I hope you have spare space for 'the beast', keith :) It would be a real problem for me...
Well, the ordnance is complete :yahoo: Let's go to the carrier :D
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  • Lightning-C23.jpg
  • Lightning-C24.jpg

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Wednesday, June 11th 2008, 5:02pm

Hello Ricardo,

Thankfully space is not a problem as i only like to make
the large models.
Your latest pictures are most welcome and look superb.

I will try and post some of my own as the assembly begins.
I think the sclaing up of the wings will be very interesting!

Best regards,
Keith.

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Wednesday, June 11th 2008, 9:59pm

Ricleite, your build is outstanding as always. I wait to see more coming soon. =D>

Greetings.

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Thursday, June 12th 2008, 10:05am

@ Keith - lucky you, regardind space :) I'd never dare to build a 1/33 Sunderland ;)...
@ lriera - you are welcome :) More is coming soon, I mean, now :D
The Lightning has more than a fair share of card formers. Those on the first picture are for the middle fuselage section and you can count more than 50 parts 8o
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  • Lightning-C25.jpg
  • Lightning-C26.jpg

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Thursday, June 12th 2008, 12:14pm

Hello Ricardo,

Yet more excellent pictures & progress from you,many thanks.

The fuselage parts you are now on are the exact pieces that
i am now in the process of preparing to cut out and assemble
so this is a real help to how the build goes.

Thankyou very much and keep up the good work.

Best regards,
Keith.

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Thursday, June 12th 2008, 9:07pm

Ricleite, I don't know if you've seen it, but if not you're sure to be interested to hear that your method with rolled paper strips has raised quite some interest over at Papermodelers.com.

Keith, I admire and appreciate your project of making a 1/16 build of this model. I am sure it will be magnificent, and it would be most interesting to hear and see more of that, parallell to the build here or separately.

Many regards to both of you, Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

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Friday, June 13th 2008, 10:28am

@Keith - I'm imagining the work I had multiplied by 4 - 2 for the length to cut and 2 for the thickness! Oh dear! Forget the gym, you will not need it ;)
@ Leif - thanks a lot for the link :super: I was not aware of that one and it is always rewarding to see that my hobby is also interesting for somebody else. I was asked to make a tutorial elsewhere and it is available here:

http://maquetasenpapel.mforos.com/125693…rolos-em-papel/

It is all in Portuguese but the maths behind the rolled paper method are very simple and, hopefully, the pictures are helpful. I find the purpose-designed strip to get the desired shape good because it allows you to apply all the pressure needed to glue. There is not a hole in the middle, which could collapse while gluing and ruin all the work...
If that interests you, I made another spreadsheet to design paper strips to get wheel tyres. Hopefully, the first test will come this weekend, for the Lightning tyres :).
Needless to say, if someone wants a copy of the spreadsheets, just drop me a line :) There is no secret behind them :rotwerd:
Rolled paper was also used by Fly Model, with a simpler shape, to model the gun muzzles, in it works pretty well here, too.
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  • Lightning-C27.jpg
  • Lightning-C28.jpg

Leif Ohlsson

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Friday, June 13th 2008, 10:50am

Ricleite (& other interested),

Gil Russell has made a short tutorial in English for his method, inspired by yours. The images compare very well.

See also this comment on comparing different varieties of the basic idea.

This is most interesting and fruitful.

Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Leif Ohlsson" (Jun 13th 2008, 12:45pm)


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Friday, June 13th 2008, 12:44pm

Keith, I've had some experience of cutting out parts doubled on to 2mm hard card. It is indeed a lot of work, and in the end I resorted to a power table jigsaw.

However, since then I have been thinking and looking for proper substitute material for the hard 2mm card. The best I have arrived at is 2mm depron (which is the white foamy stuff they use for insulating electrically heated floors). I have not been able to locate a source for that, and in any case it is kind of expensive-ish.

Imagine my joy, therefore, when finding out that 2mm depron (or similar material) is used for protecting packages of large-sheet papers, such as available in artists shops.

You should try to locate an artists shop selling large sheets of expensive paper, like aquarel paper and similar, and kind of mention your problem. Perhaps they, like my shop keeper, will feel in a merciful mood and just give you the large sheets (which they trow away in any case).

Although I haven't tried them for a real model yet, they seem ideal. You will probably have to double them both back & front with ordinary paper (pattern on one side; suitably coloured or white, on the other) for rigidity.

The good news is that white glue works very well. The even better news is that you can make exact cuts, and the cutting is like through butter, at least compared to 2mm hard card.

For what it's worth. I'd love to see it tried out on a full build.

Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Leif Ohlsson" (Jun 13th 2008, 12:46pm)


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Friday, June 13th 2008, 1:54pm

Hello Leif,

Thankyou very much for all the kind information on the depron
material,it would be an alternative for sure.

At present i have a large stock of mid-range card thicknesses
so will be ok on that side.
I would not use a jig saw i think i would rather cut 2 times the
formers and back to back them,but at the moment all is going
well with the card i have and i affix strengthening angles of my
own that creates a very rigid construction when done.

I will post some pictures as soon as i can on a separate thread
as i think Ricardo rightly deserves this one alone.

The construction on this thread is a superb masterpiece in the
making!

Kind regards,
Keith.

Jan Hascher

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Friday, June 13th 2008, 3:35pm

Quoted

Original von Leif Ohlsson
The best I have arrived at is 2mm depron (which is the white foamy stuff they use for insulating electrically heated floors). I have not been able to locate a source for that, and in any case it is kind of expensive-ish.
Leif


Hi Leif and Rick,
Depron is sold in home improvement stores (like Home Depot, etc) as insulation to be put under wallpaper. Comes in large roles or precut. And its quite cheap. Checking google for "indoor rc planes " also helps. Most of these are made of Depron. Other brand names are Selitron or Selitac.

I would love to hear some experience working with these kind of material.

Cheers
Jan
Jeder, der einen Post mit "Ich habe zwar keine Ahnung, aber..." beginnt, möge bitte den Absenden-Button ignorieren.

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Friday, June 13th 2008, 4:16pm

Hello Jan!

I know that you can buy it, and I've done so. But in Sweden, at least, I cannot buy anything but 3mm depron (or similar), in very large sheets. The price is some 8 euros for a square meter or possibly somewhat more. That may or may not be expensive, but in any case it isn't 2mm.

Which is why I thought the tip about the free 2mm stuff used for protecting paper and just thrown away at the shop was too good not to mention.

I have made a few test parts, and when laminated on both sides it works just beautifully.
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

zec

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Sunday, June 15th 2008, 12:06am

It´s always a pleasure looking at your clean work and aesthetic photos.
Can´t await the next steps :) .
LG
Michael

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Monday, June 16th 2008, 10:07am

The next steps are somewhat out of sequence (assuming that there is a sequence when I build a model :rotwerd:...). This last weekend I put to work the spreadsheet to make rolled paper tyres. The result is here :)
Ricleite has attached the following images:
  • Lightning-C49.jpg
  • Lightning-C50.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Ricleite" (Jun 17th 2008, 9:57am)


Ricleite

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Monday, June 16th 2008, 10:10am

The main wheels have a lot more detail but the rolled paper method is exactly the same. A bit longer strip of paper, not surprisingly...
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  • Lightning-C51.jpg
  • Lightning-C52.jpg
  • Lightning-C53.jpg
  • Lightning-C54.jpg
  • Lightning-C55.jpg

Yu Gyokubun

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Monday, June 16th 2008, 10:40am

Hi Ricardo,

Rolled up paper tyres look very nice.
I want to follow your way but doesn't strip of paper get tangled up? :D

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Monday, June 16th 2008, 3:12pm

Not at all, Yu :). In fact, it proved much easier than I had expected. The trick is to put tiny drops of glue at intervals, while rolling the paper strip and, in the process, ensure that it is centred. As the tyre is symmetrical, it is easy to achieve.

Yu Gyokubun

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Monday, June 16th 2008, 3:28pm

Noted your tip with many thanks Ricardo.
Only want to make tyres I've decided to make aircraft as next project. It seems I am always influenced by your modeling :rotwerd: No self-initiative :rotwerd: :rotwerd: :rotwerd:

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