This website uses cookies. By continuing to use our site you declare your agreement. More Information

Dear visitor, welcome to Kartonbau.de - Alles rund um Papiermodelle, Kartonmodellbau und Bastelbogen. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

1

Sunday, March 1st 2009, 3:09pm

De Grote of St. Laurenskerk Rotterdam/ LS/ 1:300 [FERTIG]

Model: St. Laurence Church in Rotterdam
Scale: 1:300
Publisher: Leon Schuijt
Design: Jaap Zomer
Dimensions: 23.5 cm x 37 cm x 24 cm high
Number of Parts: 302

A main feature of this beautiful church is the main organ. It is the largest mechanical organ in Europe. It was built by the firm of Marcussen and housed approximately 7600 pipes. There are two other organs in the building; one in the nave and the other in the choir. The church was begun in 1449 and fully restored by 1968.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8354.jpg

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 31st 2009, 2:58pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

2

Sunday, March 1st 2009, 3:14pm

A Companion Model

St. Laurence church will become a companion model to St. Bavo Cathedral. They both are built on black bases and share similar construction methods.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_4279.jpg
  • IMG_4280.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 1st 2009, 3:19pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

3

Sunday, March 1st 2009, 3:17pm

The Windows

Window construction is very straightforward. The window tabs are folded inward back on themselves to create some depth in the casing. Then the window panel is glued in place from behind.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8352.jpg

  • "eskatee" is male
  • "eskatee" has been banned

Posts: 2,888

Date of registration: Mar 12th 2005

  • Send private message

4

Sunday, March 1st 2009, 5:19pm

RE: De Grote of St. Laurenskerk Rotterdam/ LS/ 1:300

Quoted

Original von John
A main feature of the this beautiful church is the main organ.


Here you can take a look:

http://www.orgelsite.nl/

groetjes,
Gert
Kartonbau.de dein Forum!
Kartonbau.de It's Yours!
Kartonbau.de Jouw Forum!

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

5

Sunday, March 1st 2009, 5:54pm

RE: De Grote of St. Laurenskerk Rotterdam/ LS/ 1:300

Thank you Gert.

You know how much I appreciate you adding these personal and informative additions to my threads. They add so much to the build.

Thanks and Cheers from Ontario,

John

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 1st 2009, 6:13pm)


Ricleite

Professional

  • "Ricleite" is male

Posts: 1,044

Date of registration: Jan 24th 2006

  • Send private message

6

Tuesday, March 3rd 2009, 2:53pm

This kit looks very promising, John :) As usual with Leon Schuijt, the colours are very appealing. Needless to say, I'll be an interested viewer ;)

Royaloakmin

Professional

  • "Royaloakmin" is male

Posts: 900

Date of registration: Oct 24th 2006

  • Send private message

7

Tuesday, March 3rd 2009, 4:32pm

Yes, it looks a most promising build. I'd say you have developed a taste for Dutch architecture.
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

In Build:
Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

8

Tuesday, March 3rd 2009, 8:50pm

Hi Ricardo and Fred,
Let's hope the build lives up to expectations.

Fred, I have Gert to thank for all his informative, background Netherlands information.

And so we begin with De Grote of St. Laurenskerk.

I thought it might be kind of fun this time to build the cathedral up wall by wall and take photos as they go up, rather than glue everything together like a box and setting it on the base. Perhaps it will feel more like a real construction site where the masons are bringing the walls up from the ground.

Here are the first two walls; the west and north walls of the north transept (the northwest corner of the north transept).
John has attached the following image:
  • Transept1.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 4th 2009, 3:36am)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

9

Thursday, March 5th 2009, 6:55pm

The North Transept

... the addition of the northwest transept tower.
John has attached the following images:
  • NTransept1a.jpg
  • NTransept2a.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

10

Thursday, March 5th 2009, 6:57pm

RE: The North Transept

... the addition of the east wall of the north transept.
John has attached the following images:
  • NTransept1a.jpg
  • NTransept2a.jpg
  • NTransept3a.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

11

Thursday, March 5th 2009, 7:00pm

RE: The North Transept

... and the addition of the northeast tower of the north transept.
John has attached the following images:
  • NTransept1a.jpg
  • NTransept2a.jpg
  • NTransept3a.jpg
  • NTransept4a.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

12

Thursday, March 5th 2009, 7:03pm

RE: The North Transept

Viewing the development of the north transept from the back...
John has attached the following images:
  • NTransept1b.jpg
  • NTransept2b.jpg
  • NTransept3b.jpg
  • NTransept4b.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

13

Friday, March 6th 2009, 1:42am

The East End

Walls of the choir and the apse are up.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8371.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

14

Friday, March 6th 2009, 8:34pm

RE: The East End

The walls are up in the northeast corner of the cathedral. They form the end of the north aisle. I assume the bump out is a small chapel.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8384.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

15

Saturday, March 7th 2009, 4:16pm

RE: The East End

The roof of the aisle behind the transept is very interesting. Its gable ends feature two stained glass windows. The crosses have not been built out yet. They will have four cross arms.

The roof deck makes it much easier to install this style of roof. The roof has something firm to sit on. You can make adjustments around all its edges until everything is just right. Many dry fits are required as notches are needed to fit the roof around parts projecting out onto the deck.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8389.jpg

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 11th 2009, 8:15pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

16

Saturday, March 7th 2009, 9:26pm

RE: The East End

This section of the north aisle looks like a complete little building unto itself.

Historically, because it took so long to complete these churches and cathedrals, finished portions were often used for worship services. This could go on for years.

This concept is used in Ken Follett's, 'The Pillars of the Earth'. On page 293, Tom the Builder and Prior Philip discuss plans for the new cathedral.

Philip: "Still, even with just thirty masons, I could have the east end completed after five years."
Tom: "Yes, and you could use it for services, and set up a new shrine for the bones of Saint Adolphus."
Philip: "Indeed." Philip was really excited now. "I had been thinking it would be decades before we could have a new church..."
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_8398.jpg
  • IMG_8399.jpg

erasmus

Intermediate

  • "erasmus" is male

Posts: 189

Date of registration: Apr 12th 2008

Occupation: System Architekt

  • Send private message

17

Sunday, March 8th 2009, 2:29pm

RE: The East End

Hi John,

Clean build so far.

I'm particularly interested to see how you are going to make the rear chapels fit to the apse. I recall from my cathedral build that making these curved shapes fit required quite some dry fitting.

Cheers,

Bruno
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

Ricleite

Professional

  • "Ricleite" is male

Posts: 1,044

Date of registration: Jan 24th 2006

  • Send private message

18

Monday, March 9th 2009, 2:39pm

@ erasmus - I bet John will use card templates :D
Right, John? ;)

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

19

Wednesday, March 11th 2009, 8:10pm

A Handy Reference

Hi Ricardo,
You are right. Templates are so helpful in keeping complicated assemblies under control. If I write a book about card modelling, templates will be chapter one.

Hi Bruno,
Yes, the apse will be a good challenge.

Hello All,
Bruno sent me a most useful internet reference tool (Wikipedia) for those who would like to look up cathedral terminology. There are hot links that will take you to fine photographic examples of the glossary entries. When you open it up you will see a plan view of a cruciform church. Diagram Number 9 (yellow region) is where we will soon be with this thread construction.

Thanks Bruno.

Here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_diagram

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Jul 19th 2009, 12:35pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

20

Wednesday, March 11th 2009, 8:14pm

The South Transept/Aisle

The south transept and the bit of aisle tucked in behind it has been built.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_8409.jpg
  • IMG_8407.jpg
  • IMG_8406.jpg
  • IMG_8405.jpg

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 11th 2009, 8:18pm)


  • "eskatee" is male
  • "eskatee" has been banned

Posts: 2,888

Date of registration: Mar 12th 2005

  • Send private message

21

Wednesday, March 11th 2009, 11:12pm

RE: The South Transept/Aisle

Hoi John,

You can find the sound of two of the organs from the St.-Laurenskerk and many other organs here on radio recordings from the past:

http://orgelconcerten.ncrv.nl/ncrv?nav=jlvbuCsHtGAkBbC

This is the sound when the main was very new. Marcussen organs, when they grow older and older will get an even more cultivated sound,

groetjes,
Gert

P.S. kies orgel = Choose organ

go to Marcussen-orgels

The first choice is the transept- organ from 1959, you can choose out of three concerts [1959, 1992, 1996]

The second is the main organ, mentioned above
Kartonbau.de dein Forum!
Kartonbau.de It's Yours!
Kartonbau.de Jouw Forum!

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

22

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 2:02pm

The Organ

Oh Gert,

Thank you! Do you know what I'd really love to hear on these organs at Laurenskerk? Taccata and fugue in D minor. Can't you just hear the transept and choir organs speaking to each other in the opening bars and then the main organ coming in with that one, deep, resonating note at the bottom? Wow!

John

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

23

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 2:17pm

The Ambulatory

Now, as I listen to organ music, we begin the ambulatory. I love this word. It is derived from the word amble, which means to walk or move at a slow, relaxed pace. And that's exactly what people did in an ambulatory. It was not only a way of passing around behind the apse of the cathedral so as to not disturb services in progress, it provided a pathway to slowly walk around the east end of the church and visit the apsidal chapels.

The west end of cathedrals were built to impress, but it's the east end that gives them so much of their character.

Here's an example of an apse and ambulatory being built on a Romanesque basilica. Notice that the apse, the ambulatory and the chapels are round.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_2603.jpg
  • IMG_2609.jpg
  • IMG_2610.jpg
  • IMG_2620.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 12th 2009, 2:50pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

24

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 2:21pm

RE: The Ambulatory

another round ambulatory. Recognize the cathedral?
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_3619.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

25

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 2:25pm

RE: The Ambulatory

Over time, the end of the apse on most cathedrals became angular. The chapels varied.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_2098.jpg
  • IMG_3622.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 12th 2009, 2:36pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

26

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 2:38pm

RE: The Ambulatory

Sometimes there were no apsidal chapels...
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_4532.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

27

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 2:40pm

RE: The Ambulatory

... but most large cathedrals had them. (Ricardo, the one on the right is for you.)
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_2102.jpg
  • IMG_8418.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

28

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 8:26pm

RE: The Ambulatory

So now it's time to get our Rotterdam cathedral's ambulatory under way. All the ingredients are seen in the photo.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8423.jpg

Wiesel

Hennings Dino

  • "Wiesel" is male

Posts: 11,118

Date of registration: Dec 30th 2004

Occupation: Jurist

  • Send private message

29

Friday, March 13th 2009, 10:16am

RE: The Ambulatory

Quoted

Original von John
another round ambulatory. Recognize the cathedral?


I think, it's Notre Dame de Paris?

John, you are doing a very good job! I am following your report with a lot of interest.
Bis die Tage...

Helmut


Die gefährlichste aller Weltanschauungen ist die der Leute, welche die Welt nie angeschaut haben.

Alexander Freiherr von Humboldt



Im Bau: CAP SAN DIEGO (roko)

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

30

Friday, March 13th 2009, 10:58am

RE: The Ambulatory

Good Morning Helmut.

You are right. Now this begs the question, "What are the names of the other examples shown?"

Thanks for the nice comment.

Cheers...John

erasmus

Intermediate

  • "erasmus" is male

Posts: 189

Date of registration: Apr 12th 2008

Occupation: System Architekt

  • Send private message

31

Friday, March 13th 2009, 1:37pm

RE: The Ambulatory

deleted
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "erasmus" (Mar 13th 2009, 1:42pm)


erasmus

Intermediate

  • "erasmus" is male

Posts: 189

Date of registration: Apr 12th 2008

Occupation: System Architekt

  • Send private message

32

Friday, March 13th 2009, 1:40pm

RE: The Ambulatory

Quoted

Original von John
Over time, the end of the apse on most cathedrals became angular. The chapels varied.


I think to recognize Chartres on the right.

Cheers,

Bruno
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "erasmus" (Mar 13th 2009, 1:43pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

33

Friday, March 13th 2009, 2:41pm

RE: The Ambulatory

Right on the money Bruno. Chartres it is.
John

Ricleite

Professional

  • "Ricleite" is male

Posts: 1,044

Date of registration: Jan 24th 2006

  • Send private message

34

Friday, March 13th 2009, 3:08pm

RE: The Ambulatory

Quoted

Originally posted by John
Ricardo, the one on the right is for you.

Yes, I hope to be able to take a similar picture in the near future :)

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

35

Friday, March 13th 2009, 9:21pm

RE: The Ambulatory

Here are the walls of the ambulatory in place. Notice that the roof deck of the ambulatory is not precisely on the lines marking where it should mate all around the polygonal faces of the apse. I got a bit lazy here and glued the whole unit of the ambulatory into place in one go. It's not a critical join as it will be covered by the sloping roofs coming down from below the clerestory windows.

If it was a critical and exposed joint between wall and roof, I would have made a shelf all the way around the apse walls, cut off the roof deck tabs (or fold them under) and carefully glued the roof deck down onto the shelf. It's a much more accurate method of going about the task. The way I've done it, the roof deck was just pushed up against the apse.

Sorry for going on so much about what I didn't do, but perhaps it's a useful tip that could come in handy.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8425.jpg

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Mar 14th 2009, 3:30pm)


John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

36

Saturday, March 14th 2009, 3:28pm

The Ambulatory Roof

The roof of the ambulatory is quite unique. It does not slope downward from below the clerestory windows as I earlier mentioned; it is a roof with a ridgepole. The roof panels rise to the ridgepole all around the apse, fall back downward toward the apse walls and then level off to a horizontal ledge.

Ricardo was quite right. A template is necessary here to maintain all the roof angles.

I must make an observation here. Notice the white, rectangular tabs around the inner edges of the roof in the right photograph. They will act as vertical spacers that will hold the roof up at the correct height above the roof deck. Clever. It's the alternative to the shelf method I mentioned earlier.
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_8432.jpg
  • IMG_8439.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

37

Saturday, March 14th 2009, 3:29pm

RE: The Ambulatory Roof

The ambulatory roof...
John has attached the following images:
  • IMG_8440.jpg
  • IMG_8441.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

38

Saturday, March 14th 2009, 11:26pm

RE: The Ambulatory Roof

... is on.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8445.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

39

Sunday, March 15th 2009, 12:58am

The fit of parts on this lovely model have thus far been excellent. It has been a very enjoyable build to bring this half of the cathedral to completion.
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8455.jpg

John

Master

  • "John" is male
  • "John" started this thread

Posts: 2,681

Date of registration: Oct 4th 2005

Occupation: retired school teacher

  • Send private message

40

Sunday, March 15th 2009, 8:36pm

The West Tower

Now our attention turns to the west tower. Perhaps while we were working on the east end, a team of labourers have been excavating a large, deep hole for the footings of the west tower. And now, as we shift our attentions to the west end, the masons have brought the foundations to ground level.

But what is this? Has there been a miscalculation? We note that the footprint of the tower is not parallel with what will become the nave. It is not parallel with the transepts! Has the master mason erred?
John has attached the following image:
  • IMG_8458.jpg

1 user apart from you is browsing this thread:

1 guests

Social bookmarks