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ccoyle

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41

Thursday, August 14th 2008, 10:06pm

Hi, Lech.

The problems I encountered prior to 'The Big Crash' were probably a combination of my own assembly errors and the space limitations within the cowling. To start with, I did not get the front and rear discs of the motor mount aligned exactly parallel. Next, not all of the cylinders wound up at perfect right angles to the engine block. These small variations in alignment led to a problem when mounting the rear cowling -- since the cylinders and motor mount discs were not all parallel, the cowling could be made to align with the fuselage at the rear or the cylinders at the front, but not with both at the same time. I chose to align the cowling with the fuselage; this left some of the cylinders protruding too far forward to fit the front cowling properly (this was the fit I was testing when I dropped the model :P ).

There is very little room for error inside the cramped cowling. It appears that extra attention to spacing and alignment is necessary at each step of the engine construction process in order to assure that everything will fit in the cowling's limited space. This is why I am leaning towards rebuilding the entire engine. But I will have less time to work on it from now on, since I am a teacher and our school year is about to get started -- no more summer free time.

Cheers!
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

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42

Thursday, August 14th 2008, 10:26pm

Hi Chris,
I am happy you will continue the work.
The plane has never been built. The constructor of the plane wanted it to be as small as posssible to make it maneuverable (it is a common feature for all Polish constuction of that time). That is why there is not much space between parts of the plane. The engine was at pilot face and the machine guns in his pockets :)
Lech

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43

Friday, August 15th 2008, 12:33pm

Hey Chris, sorry to hear about the accident with the model and I'm glad you are going rebuild. It's a great looking model.

Regards, David
Retired in Southern Spain :prost:

ccoyle

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44

Monday, August 18th 2008, 2:30am

Alles repariert!

Just don't look too closely! :rolleyes:
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • repair 1.jpg
  • repair 2.jpg
  • repair 3.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

DavidESP

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45

Monday, August 18th 2008, 12:11pm

Great recovery Chris.

Regards
Retired in Southern Spain :prost:

ccoyle

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46

Monday, August 25th 2008, 5:40am

a bit more

I installed the exhaust pipes and cut out all the wing formers (shown dry-fitted). Up-close flash photography makes the painted seams look far worse than they do under natural light, although I still need a lot of practice in that area. :rolleyes:
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • exhausts 1.jpg
  • wing formers.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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Leif Ohlsson

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47

Monday, August 25th 2008, 9:19am

The exhausts are beautiful, and so is the painted seam! - L.
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

ccoyle

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48

Wednesday, August 27th 2008, 3:46pm

wings

The wing skins are now complete. I am much happier with the right wing than the left, which I completed first. The wing skins are in four pieces. The problem was that there is no joiner strip between the main piece and the wingtip pieces, which made adding the latter pieces troublesome. On the right wing, I added a joiner stream at that seam, using plain copier paper. I also switched to spray adhesive for the skins. The result was a wing with better seams and less "starving cow" sagging between formers.

We are in the home stretch now!

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following image:
  • wings done.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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Royaloakmin

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49

Wednesday, August 27th 2008, 4:28pm

Chris, lookin' good :super: i can't see any real difference in the wings.
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

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ccoyle

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50

Thursday, August 28th 2008, 6:42am

windscreen & gun sight

A couple of more bits in place. I used an overhead transparency film for the canopy. I had trouble adhering the frames to this material. Anyone have a suggestion for gluing paper to mylar?
ccoyle has attached the following image:
  • windscreen.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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Leif Ohlsson

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51

Thursday, August 28th 2008, 5:12pm

I'm sure Jörg's suggestion is the best and wisest. Just thought I'd mention another intriguing possiblity I've seen suggested, namely to print the frame parts on self-adhesive paper (used for labels, etc.; the kind which has a protective sheet over the sticky side).

Attached, see two illustrations from the instructions for Andrzej Inwald's D4Y2 Susei.

Leif
Leif Ohlsson has attached the following images:
  • GLAZING.jpg
  • GLAZINGHE-70.jpg
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

ccoyle

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52

Thursday, August 28th 2008, 7:28pm

Those are both good suggestions, and I will keep them in mind for the next canopy/windscreen.

Tschuess!
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

Royaloakmin

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53

Thursday, August 28th 2008, 8:37pm

Chris, i have been cutting up clear plastic page protectors and gluing them with the yellow UHU alleskleber. Very thin and flexible, but still stiff enough in a canopy. I will have to check out Jorges' method of using scotch tape.
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

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Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

ccoyle

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54

Saturday, August 30th 2008, 12:05am

struts

Struts are completed. Based on some trial and error on my part, I would suggest to other builders that the strut collars be glued to the wings prior to mounting the wings. The upper collars were somewhat tight; I needed to slice the joints open a small amount to get the struts to fit in. The lower collars on the aft struts were not long enough to wrap all the way around the struts. I first glued the collars to the fuselage without closing the seams; after inserting the struts, I wrapped the collars around them as tightly as possible and glued them with CA.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following image:
  • wing struts.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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Leif Ohlsson

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55

Saturday, August 30th 2008, 4:36pm

Fred, I'm not sure Jörg referred to Scotch double-sided tape. It's much too tricky to use, since it doesn't have a protective foil. Use the kind which comes thin, but with a protective foil (not necessarily Scotch); building markets have several non-descript brands in different widths & lengths.

Stick the first sticky side onto the part while it is still only roughly cut; then cut both layers clean; and only then remove the protective film for attaching to the transparent sheet.

Chris, nice work! - L.
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Leif Ohlsson" (Aug 30th 2008, 4:37pm)


Royaloakmin

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56

Saturday, August 30th 2008, 9:53pm

Leif, can you name some brands, I'm not sure I've seen such tape. Sounds like a good way to go.
thanks
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

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Leif Ohlsson

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57

Saturday, August 30th 2008, 11:59pm

The one I picked up was by "tesa". Very standard and quite common it seems, mostly for household use, like attaching shelf paper, glueing on labels, attaching thin stripes of panels, etc. I don't remember the price exactly, but a couple of Euros, I guess. I'm sure others, with greater experience, can give you better or more precise tips.

The good thing about this kind of tape is that it is 50mm wide (and 5m long), so it will cover an uncut part all over. Then you can cut out the inside (where the glazing will be), peel of the protective paper, stick the uncut transparency on, and only then cut the outside rim clean (through paper, tape & glazing).

Leif
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  • Tesa-tape.jpg
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

reklein

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58

Sunday, August 31st 2008, 1:55am

I've had good luck here in the US with a product called RC 56. Its primary use is for guing plastic canopies to Balsa R/C planes. It looks like common white glue but seems to work well gluing plastic sheet to paper. I've only seen it in hobby shops catering to the RC plane crowd. But it most likely be found on line.
I've enjoyed your build log very much so far. I can't understand your dropping a nearly finished fuselage though. I've certainly never done that. ;)

ccoyle

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59

Sunday, August 31st 2008, 3:54am

landing gear

The landing gear struts are complete and mounted. There are formers that are supposed to go inside the struts, but they looked like a serious fit problem, so I omitted them. I did add an additional wire to the rear part of each strut to add more stability. The biggest headache was, once again, getting the strut collars and fairings to fit. The collars on the forward strut legs were not long enough; I fit them as best I could, then filled the resulting gap with some Tacky Glue to touch things up. The fairings over the wing strut/aft gear strut needed their strut openings enlarged, but in the end I got everything to go where it is supposed to.

I am currently working on the wheels. Lech, if you are reading this, I have no idea how the wheels are supposed to connect to part #52, the spats formers; the shape of parts #52 is very odd. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Also, it is not clear from the drawings where the points are located for attaching the bracing wires to the spats, and whether the left/right bracing wires cross each other where they attach to the fuselage.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • landing gear struts.jpg
  • gear struts 1.jpg
  • gear struts 2.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ccoyle" (Aug 31st 2008, 3:58am)


60

Sunday, August 31st 2008, 11:22am

Hi ccoyle,

your Sep looks very cool and clean built! A great, in reality as a polish military plane in the thirties, is almost finished now. My congratulations for your progress in the building of the Sep. Keep on staying cool... 8)

Kind regards

Alfred

ccoyle

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61

Wednesday, September 10th 2008, 6:22am

Just a quick update...

I haven't had much time lately to work on the model, and when I have, I've often been too exhausted to do much. I'm currently working on the landing gear spats, and I'm very unhappy with my work. They are, of course, a tricky bit to do, consisting of two halves with a lot of 'flower petal' tabs to roll properly. Well, mine have not turned out good at all. I'm strongly considering replacing the paper spats with carved, wooden gear. I may not get to that task until the weekend. I'll let you know how things work out.

Cheers!
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

ccoyle

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62

Sunday, September 14th 2008, 6:53am

Mystery solved?

Remember that strange strap on the bottom of the fuselage behind the cockpit? I think I figured out what it is. I read on Wikipedia that the PZL P.24 had a fuel tank that could be jettisoned in case of a fire emergency. I suspect that was the case for the Z-17 as well, hence the strap was to secure this removable fuel tank.

I will finish this model eventually...I swear it! ;)

Tschuess!
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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kroolo

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63

Monday, September 15th 2008, 12:21am

RE: Mystery solved?

Yes, You're right: this was a fuel tank and it may be dropped in emergency. I'm waiting for gallery oof complete model!

ccoyle

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64

Monday, September 15th 2008, 7:18am

spats

Well, as I said, I was very unhappy with my work on the paper spats, so I set about carving them from wood. First, I laminated two scrap pieces of 3mm plywood to make a 6mm piece. I then used one of the paper spats as a template to draw the pattern onto the wood. I cut out the blanks and then shaped them with a Dremel sanding drum. The first photo shows the two blanks along with the paper spat. The second photo shows, from bottom to top, the paper spat, a shaped spat, and a spat after rough sanding. Next I will finish sand the spats and prep them for painting.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • spat blanks.jpg
  • spats carved.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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Royaloakmin

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65

Monday, September 15th 2008, 5:30pm

Chris, you are right, spats are a pain. Here is another alternative method to consider; take the assembed paper spats, paint them with Future, dry, fill any cracks with spackling compound, sand and paint. Me, I hate carving :D

Your perseverence with this plane will be rewarded .
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

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Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

ccoyle

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66

Tuesday, September 16th 2008, 3:08am

Fred, I thought about doing exactly as you suggested. Either way, I was going to have to do some sanding, and wood is both sturdier (for shaping) and requires less filling. The real beauty is, I did not do any real 'carving'...the Dremel tool did most of the work, and it does it very quickly. From wood blanks to shaped spats required about one hour of work. I still have to do the finish sanding, after which I will need to cut in the slightly convex curve at the bottom of each spat. The latter chore will require more precision than the Dremel is capable of, so I will use files.

Tschuess!
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

ccoyle

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67

Wednesday, September 17th 2008, 7:16am

Spats

The finished spats turned out very nice. Unfortunately, when I attempted to transfer the pictures of them from my camera to my PC, I lost the files. :O It's too late at night to try again, so I will have to retake the photos tomorrow. Sorry!!
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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ccoyle

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68

Wednesday, September 17th 2008, 3:45pm

As promised, here are some pictures.
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • spats 1.jpg
  • spats 2.jpg
  • spats 3.jpg
Chris Coyle
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ccoyle

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69

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 4:47pm

Fertig!

After assembling the scoop, tail wheel, and propeller, the Z-17 is now complete. Based on my experience with the WZ-X, I left one of the thick formers out of each propeller blade, otherwise the skins are very tight. Overall, I am very happy with this build and the finished product. Any faults in the completed model are due to my skills rather than to the kit itself, since anyone who has seen this PZL-8 modelknows what can be done by a true master building a CardPlane kit. Having finished, I will now take a break to read a book or two and contemplate what kit I shall tackle next.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • finished 1.jpg
  • finished 3.jpg
  • finished 4.jpg
  • finished 5.jpg
  • finished 6.jpg
  • finished 7.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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Royaloakmin

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70

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 6:20pm

=D> =D> :prost: Don't contemplate too long :D
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

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71

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 7:00pm

Gorgeous build!! Great recovery from the dropped fuselage, and the carved spats look awesome!
-Dustin Basler

Current Project
A6M2 Zero

F6F-3 Hellcat

eatcrow2

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72

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 7:09pm

Fantastic work!!!!!! A real beauty....... :prost: =D>
Peter Crow
Santa Monica, Calif.
http://www.picturetrail.com/eatcrow2

kroolo

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73

Friday, October 3rd 2008, 11:19am

Very nice model! Congratulations! :prost:

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