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ccoyle

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1

Thursday, July 24th 2008, 2:44am

CardPlane PWS Z-17 Sep I

Hello, friends.

I recently received a number of CardPlane kits from Modele Kartonowe. They are all very nice kits, and it was difficult to decide which to build first. The ultimate deciding factors were 1) the finished model has to fit in my display cabinet, and 2) this kit was the only one I have approximately matching paints for edge coloring. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, unlike some CardPlane kits, there is no English description of the plane, so all I can tell for now is that it was a single-seat fighter prototype developed in the early 1930's. It was unusual in that the wings were swept forward, allowing the wing roots to attach to the fuselage behind the pilot, giving him an excellent field of view.

The kit consists of two pages of instructions in Polish, two pages of diagrams, four pages of single-thickness parts, and two pages of parts to be laminated onto thicker stock. The printing is excellent, and the diagrams are clear, as is typical for CardPlane kits. As a bonus, parts for detailing the cockpit and engine can be downloaded for free at theModele Kartonowesite. I will be adding the extra detail parts to my model. One can also download a sample parts page in PDF format, as well as see some pictures of the completed prototype model, one of which is shown below.

My last build was the CardPlane WZ-X. It was not without difficulties, but over-all it was a very enjoyable build and produced a fine model. I am very much looking forward to getting started on this model, and then maybe another CardPlane subject after that. ;)

Uebrigens, genau wie unser Freund Leif aus Schweden, ich schreibe lieber auf englisch, kann aber deutsch ohne Schwierigkeiten lesen...wenn man nicht zu viel Slang nuetzt.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • Z-17.jpg
  • CardPlane prototype build.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ccoyle" (Jul 24th 2008, 2:48am)


Leif Ohlsson

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Thursday, July 24th 2008, 11:22am

Hello Chris,

I'm glad to see you doing this. Lech has such a generous website, that you could keep busy for a very long while just building his free models, so it is good to see someone tackling those he has been able to get published.

Even so, the sample downloads, errata, and free extra details are a goldmine in themselves. I've actually started a collection of them with the hindthought of having a good number of pilot's seats, radial engines, throttle levers, and sundry details available for kitbashing.

Amazing that so little about the original aircraft is available on the net. A quick search didn't produce much at all (apart from many pictures of Lech's model). The more of these Polish aircraft you see, the more intrigued you get by the obviously very advanced early Polish aircraft industry during the 20s and 30s. And they were not all military either, as one of Lech's upcoming models is demonstrating, the PZL-26.

Good luck with the build!

Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Leif Ohlsson" (Jul 24th 2008, 11:24am)


ccoyle

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3

Friday, July 25th 2008, 2:26am

Vorbereitung

For those of us in America printing out the detail parts, a caution is in order. Prior to printing, one must select the "no scaling" option, otherwise the printer will scale down the drawings to fit the printer's margins, which on 8.5" by 11" paper will result in parts that are too small. Most of the parts will still fit an 8.5 x 11 sheet even with no scaling.

The detail parts are of two kinds: extra parts and replacement parts. The extra parts are numbered beginning with 201, and replacement parts have the original part numbers followed by the letter 'n', e.g. part #3 gets replaced by #3n. To make sure I didn't use the wrong part in my haste, I put a tic mark through the numbers of all the parts to be replaced.

I first gave all the parts a coat of satin finish clear acrylic, followed by a coat of Testor's Dullcote. Ordinarily I would use a single coat of matte acrylic, but I didn't have any on hand, and I live a long ways from the nearest paint store. I then laminated the former parts onto three sheets of 67# card stock. I'm ready to begin cutting! =)
ccoyle has attached the following image:
  • detail parts.jpg
Chris Coyle
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4

Friday, July 25th 2008, 4:19pm

cockpit

Slow progress on the cockpit interior. These are the forward and aft cockpit bulkheads. I removed the instruments from the spare single-thickness instrument panels and then laminated them to the actual instrument panels. I used gloss clear model aircraft dope to 'glaze' the instruments.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following image:
  • cockpit bulkheads.jpg
Chris Coyle
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Leif Ohlsson

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Friday, July 25th 2008, 6:11pm

Good move with the instruments. With downloads, you can do this pretty easily (copy & paste another set of instruments). With printed kits its a nuisance. Designers really ought to include double copies of these (and other) details. Both as spares, and for doubling, if you are so inclined.

The glossy dope seems to be working fine. As for "glazing", I've used an intermediary sheet of transparencies hitherto. In the future I think I will try simply taping over the bottom layer with ordinary clear (glossy) tape.

Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

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Friday, July 25th 2008, 7:36pm

Nice start Chris. Leif, I like the idea of using clear tape to gloss the instruments with.

David
Retired in Southern Spain :prost:

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Friday, July 25th 2008, 9:44pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Leif OhlssonIn the future I think I will try simply taping over the bottom layer with ordinary clear (glossy) tape.


Wish I had thought of that one!
Chris Coyle
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8

Saturday, July 26th 2008, 8:14pm

Moin moin!

I started assembling the replacement cockpit interior, but I didn't get very far. I won't get anything done today either, because I am taking some visitors to Yosemite for the day. Here, though, is a picture of the original two-dimensional cockpit interior piece, along with the replacement interior cockpit framing pieces prior to assembly.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • original cockpit interior.jpg
  • replacement cockpit framing.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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Yu Gyokubun

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9

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 8:41am

Hello Chris,

Since David recommended me to visit your thread for detailed cockpit build of old-timers, I come all the way from Japan.
You impress me with your elaborate work. I cannot wait to see more.

BTW I missed your last build. It's a beautiful build =D> =D> =D>

Greetings,

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10

Monday, July 28th 2008, 8:33pm

cockpit framing

Thanks, Yu! I've seen your work, so such compliments coming from you are high praise.

I've managed to work on the cockpit here and there a bit and have the framing put together. I still have the machine guns and seat to add. I searched the house for clear adhesive tape to use on the starboard instrument panel, but we only have the matte variety. :rolleyes: The little lever handles are dipped in white glue to create a small knob and then painted.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • cockpit floor.jpg
  • starboard cocpit frame.jpg
  • assembled cockpit framing.jpg
  • frame and bulkheads test fit.jpg
Chris Coyle
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11

Tuesday, July 29th 2008, 5:50am

finished cockpit interior

As you can see in the first photo, there was a bit of a problem when installing the seat -- the starboard instrument panel is in the way of the seat brace. For lack of a better solution, I cut away a portion of the brace. In retrospect, I suspect the location for the part was mis-marked, and the panel probably should have been relocated further forward. It looks as though this small instrument panel was overlooked in the drawing of the diagrams; it is not pictured in them, although the place for the part on the cockpit frame is plainly marked.

The interior framing is now complete, and now it is time to start the fuselage proper. THIS is the part that truly scares me -- getting those skins and seams to look just right. Wish me luck!

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • small problem.jpg
  • solution.jpg
  • finished cockpit 1.jpg
  • finished cockpit 2.jpg
Chris Coyle
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12

Tuesday, July 29th 2008, 10:03am

RE: finished cockpit interior

Quoted

Originally posted by ccoyle
Wish me luck!

I do :D. Joyfully :)

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13

Thursday, July 31st 2008, 3:46am

problems, problems, problems

Something I first experienced with the WZ-X is that Lech's models have very, VERY tight-fitting skins, and here I have run into difficulty, some of which is no doubt due to inexperience. First problem is that there is no way the fuselage skins would wrap properly around the cockpit with the joiners in place -- they were simply too tight. To make a long and painful story short, it took me all afternoon to get the first two skins on after much cutting, test fitting, pushing, pulling, swearing, practically disassembling the inner cockpit framing to get things to fit, and more swearing. You can see the results in the first picture. If you look carefully, you will notice only part of the forward joiner strip is in place; that's because I had to remove it once, delaminate the salvaged pieces, and glue them back again in order to get the forward bulkhead to fit.

My last effort of the day was to try to assemble the fuselage piece that steps down from the cockpit to the engine firewall. Here you can see a perfect example of the fit difficulties -- the fit along the top of the fuselage looks OK, but turn it over and observe: the skin was too short, producing a tube that is too narrow in diameter to mate cleanly to the aft cockpit section.

At this point I am very frustrated. I'm trying to get the same kind of beautiful seams I see in some of the other builds, but I am at a loss as to how to produce them. I am afraid that if I try to force things, I am going to turn this interesting aircraft into a Misthaufe. Any tips?
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • fuselage skins.jpg
  • fuselage fit a.jpg
  • fuselage fit b.jpg
Chris Coyle
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Yu Gyokubun

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Thursday, July 31st 2008, 5:50am

RE: problems, problems, problems

Hi Chris,

If I were you I would sand oval shaped formers' outside without hesitation because the formers will be less visible after completion.

Cheer up!

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Yu Gyokubun" (Jul 31st 2008, 4:45pm)


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15

Thursday, July 31st 2008, 9:58am

We all know what tight skin parts mean: trouble! As I find it much easier to fill a gap than to stretch a paper part, a method that works with me is to cut the formers just inside the black lines, and not somewhere in the middle of them. It is not a perfect solution but, on average, it helps...

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Thursday, July 31st 2008, 3:43pm

Chris, I endorse what Ricardo and Yu-san are saying. I have almost always have to sand, and cut to the middle or the inside of the lines. Maybe for Halinski its not necessary, but its a necessary evil for everyone else. I am sure you will prevail, this is a great build.
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

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Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

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17

Thursday, July 31st 2008, 4:27pm

Chris, from my experience with models from Lech at CardPlane, I cut the middle of the line and sand down to fit. It's generally more work, but the results are usually much better. As the others have said, it is basically necessary evil to do the formers this way.

Keep plugging away, this one won't end up on the dung heap, I've seen your work, and know you won't let it.

Regards,
David
Retired in Southern Spain :prost:

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18

Thursday, July 31st 2008, 8:06pm

solution

To quote Chicken Run 's Mr. Tweedy: "I fixed it!"

First, I made up a bit of homemade joiner strip (first photo). I then cut the fuselage piece to allow it to expand. After gluing everything together, I filled the resulting small gap with a dab of Tacky Glue and some CA (second photo). Last photo shows the fuselage thus far.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • scratch joiner.jpg
  • fixed forward fuselage.jpg
  • fuselage as of 7-31-08.jpg
Chris Coyle
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ccoyle" (Jul 31st 2008, 8:13pm)


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19

Thursday, July 31st 2008, 9:42pm

Nice save Chris. Looks real good.

Regards
David
Retired in Southern Spain :prost:

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20

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 4:37pm

fuselage

I took everyone's advice and sanded the fuselage formers after soaking them with CA glue. This cured much of the fit problem, although I still managed to end up with some "starving cow" spots after all was finished.

The one thing that needs to be highlighted in this construction sequence is the upper fuselage skin right behind the cockpit; this is the piece through which the wing spar will eventually pass. The cutouts for this spar are not printed on the original kit piece, so anyone building the kit as-is will get a nasty surprise when they attempt to mount the wing. The proper size and location of the cutouts is given on the errata sheet found as a download at the CardPlane web site.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • fuselage parts.jpg
  • fuselage skins applied.jpg
  • upper fuselage skins.jpg
  • upper fuselage joiners.jpg
  • fuselage as of 8-1-08.jpg
Chris Coyle
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21

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 7:28am

elevators

The kit comes with optional parts for building the model with or without separate elevator and rudder control surfaces. I chose the single-piece option...I didn't want to tackle too many extra details on one kit. The construction of this piece was straightforward. The only difficulty I had was with the touch-up paint; I got a little of the dark earth on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer, and I don't have a matching shade of blue for the undersides. I used some gray and hope it is not too noticeable.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following image:
  • horizontal stabilizers.jpg
Chris Coyle
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22

Monday, August 4th 2008, 4:58am

tail surfaces

Have installed some more tail components. I decided to make the rudder in two pieces, so only the vertical stabilizer is in place at this point. I also applied two fillets to the horizontal stabilizers. I have been cutting the formers inside the printed lines and sanding them as well. This has greatly cut down on the fit problems I was having.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • tail surfaces.jpg
  • fuselage as of 8-3-08.jpg
Chris Coyle
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23

Monday, August 4th 2008, 11:57pm

Rudder is now completed and installed.

By the way, I have a part #9c that isn't shown on the diagrams. Anyone know where it goes?

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following image:
  • rudder installed.jpg
Chris Coyle
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24

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 2:46pm

Chriss, looking at the copy I have it could possibly go front to back over the gray oval in the bottom of piece 9, although it seems a little to long to fit correctly. Can't really see where else it could go. Maybe Lech will drop by and can tell us.

Regards,
David
Retired in Southern Spain :prost:

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25

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 10:46pm

mystery solved

Lech must be following this thread. I received an email from him this morning with a diagram showing the proper placement of part #9c. It appears to be a strap of some sort. There are optional parts (#214) for building up the object that sits right behind the cockpit (fuel tank? cannister?), but since this is not visible on the finished model, I omitted it. The two ends of the strap would normally fold up and go through part #9 and attach to either side of part #214. I trimmed these to the proper length for gluing to the outside of the fuselage only.
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • mystery part #9c.jpg
  • part #9c in place.jpg
Chris Coyle
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26

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 10:50pm

engine

The engine is a nine-cylinder radial. The original kit part is a two-dimensional printed engine; the optional part set includes parts for a detailed three-dimensional engine. Construction starts with the engine mount and engine block.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • engine mount.jpg
  • engine block.jpg
Chris Coyle
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27

Wednesday, August 6th 2008, 12:10pm

Hey Chris, I told you Lech keeps an eye on us.

Regards
David
Retired in Southern Spain :prost:

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28

Wednesday, August 6th 2008, 11:44pm

cylinders

Friends,

These may very well be my last posts, for I am sure that after finishing all nine engine cylinders I may well be insane. :P

These first photos show the process of building the basic cylinders. Lots of parts...not too difficult, but mind-numbing.
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • cylinder parts.jpg
  • lower cylinders.jpg
  • more cylinder parts.jpg
  • completed cylinders.jpg
Chris Coyle
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29

Wednesday, August 6th 2008, 11:57pm

one down, eight to go

On any repetitive task like this, I like to build one assembly before doing the others, so that I can get a feel for the task and see where any pitfalls might lie. I found several.

1.) On the upper cylinder there is a dark semi-circle. Did that face toward the front, or to the rear? I didn't know, so I guessed.

2.) The very tiny rocker arms were too long to sit atop the little tube-thingies (I'm not a mechanic, so I have little idea what some of these parts should be called). They had to be trimmed.

3.) At the front of each cylinder are three tubular structures. These attach to the cylinder head, but where did the bottoms attach? I scoured the Internet for pictures of radial engines. The narrow tubes appear to attach to the block; the wider tube looks like it should attach to the larger cylinder at the front of the block -- it wasn't quite long enough to do so, but at normal viewing distance it's not apparent that there is a loose end.

4.) Surprisingly, the two manifolds, though tedious, were not that difficult to make and install.

Here's a couple of shots of the finished first cylinder mounted to the block, along with a comparison shot of the printed, flat engine disk.

Each finished cylinder consists of 22 parts...hu!!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • first cyliner 1.jpg
  • first cylinder 2.jpg
  • first cylinder 3.jpg
  • engines comparison.jpg
Chris Coyle
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30

Sunday, August 10th 2008, 7:12am

more engine work

Work on the engine continues. I made some changes to the construction. First, I decided to make the remaining exhaust pipes from wire (paper clips, in fact), as seen in the first picture, along with a paper exhaust. One of the pipes has a daub of brown paint, a test to see how well the metal would hold the paint.

Second, I modified the rocker/valve assembly, since the tiny tubes for the valves were just too small and numerous for me to handle. After exploring many optional construction methods, I hit upon one that produced acceptable visual results. I first attached all the rockers (which, contrary to my earlier post, are not too long -- I was just gluing them in the wrong place). I then attached a piece of very thin copper wire (from a piece of braided copper electrical wire) from the cylinder head to the rocker. Afterwards, I daubed black paint on the wire to give a thicker appearance. The heads completed this way look virtually identical to the first head with the rolled tubes.

At this point, the engine assembly has 175 parts, and there are still 31 parts to go, so I didn't finish today, and I may not finish tomorrow, either. :rolleyes: But I'm having fun, and that is the important thing. By the way, this model is available at GPM for only 3 euro (US$4.50), which seems to me to be a real sweet deal on a cost-per-fun basis.

Cheers!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • exhausts.jpg
  • engine as of 8-09-08.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ccoyle" (Aug 10th 2008, 7:15am)


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31

Sunday, August 10th 2008, 7:27am

Hi Chris,

very nice work on that detailed engine! =D>

Cheers!
Bernhard

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32

Sunday, August 10th 2008, 4:32pm

Nice recovery! Hows the sanity holding up? ;)
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

In Build:
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33

Monday, August 11th 2008, 6:52am

finished engine

The engine is finished...and I'm still sane...hee hee (twitch). 206 total parts.

While I was busy fuming and ranting whilst dropping small parts here and there, my family wondered aloud why I pursue this as a 'hobby'. I told them it is rather like childbirth...no woman enjoys the process of giving birth, but most mothers are happy with the final product. Thus it is with labor intensive, fiddly, detailed sub-assemblies -- the process of building can be difficult, but we work until we are happy with the results.

Cheers, friends!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • finished engine 1.jpg
  • finished engine 2.jpg
  • finished engine 3.jpg
Chris Coyle
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34

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 5:12pm

cowling

The front and rear openings of the engine cowling are both narrower than the diameter of the engine, so the rear portion of the cowling must be built before mounting the engine. The brown ring inside the cowling is an exhaust ring into which all the exhaust manifolds feed before the exhaust is vented out six ehaust pipes, which get installed later. The construction of this bit is a little tricky, because there is small difference in outside diameter of the two circular parts that make up the ring; they must be exactly aligned with the smaller ring centered on the larger with a spacer between them -- difficult to do with flimsy paper. It took me two tries to get it right (these were from the downloaded detail set, so I was able to reprint the necessary parts). Things were easier after I used CA to stiffen the second set of parts prior to assembly.
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  • cowling.jpg
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35

Tuesday, August 12th 2008, 5:17pm

engine mounted

Next, I glued the partially assembled cowling to the engine exhaust manifolds, then mated the engine to the fuselage. Sorry, Joerg, no cutaway to show the engine, but as you can see in the pictures, some of the detail is visible in spite of the cowling.

Flying this airplane must have been truly exhilarating. The engine is just a few feet in front of the open cockpit, and anyone who has heard them can attest that these big radials were LOUD. Couple that with the fact that the machine guns are right in the cockpit on either side of the pilot -- diving with guns blazing would have been pure adrenaline.

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • cowling 2.jpg
  • cowling 3.jpg
  • cowling 4.jpg
  • cowling 5.jpg
  • fuselage as of 8-11-08.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ccoyle" (Aug 12th 2008, 5:22pm)


Leif Ohlsson

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36

Wednesday, August 13th 2008, 10:30am

Very pretty! - L.
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

ccoyle

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37

Wednesday, August 13th 2008, 11:52pm

This only happens to other people, right?

Wrong.

Today, I am the 'other person'. While checking the fit of a part, the fuselage slipped from my fingers. What does one do when that happens? Of course, we all instinctively grab for the falling object...and here is the result.

So what does one do? Crying is an attractive option, but doesn't get things fixed. I still have the original two-dimensional engine parts, so I could certainly do that. I could repair the existing engine, but the part I was test fitting was the forward cowling, which wasn't going to fit because all of the cylinders did not lie in exactly the same plane -- some protruded forward too much. I might consider rebuilding the entire engine. But it will probably be a day or two before I decide which option to pursue. I am still not in a frame of mind to make a rational decision.

Oh, well...no one ever said this hobby was easy!

Tschuess!
ccoyle has attached the following images:
  • damage 1.jpg
  • damage 2.jpg
Chris Coyle
Mariposa, California
USA

Yu Gyokubun

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38

Thursday, August 14th 2008, 6:05am

RE: This only happens to other people, right?

Oh, I am sorry to hear that....
But, you can rebuild or repair it because you are highly skilled...

Hmm.. I can't express appropriately what I want to say because of my clumsy English...

Take time

vanhalen

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39

Thursday, August 14th 2008, 8:32am

Hi Coyle,

oh man, it´s a shame to see that beauty broken.
But please, try to fix it.
Till now it has been a beautiful build, I like the polish biplanes so much.
Sleep another night over it and go on.

Greetings, Stephan
...that where the days, when KAMI came over me !!! :D

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Thursday, August 14th 2008, 9:52pm

Hi Chris,

you did a great work and it would be a pitty if you finish now. Do not give up.
Pls explain in details which parts do not fit and why. I will try to help you.
Once again, you did a great work!
Lech

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "LECHK" (Aug 14th 2008, 9:58pm)


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