Posts by Leif Ohlsson

    You're really doing it! Great - hoped you might, but didn't dare expect it. So you got the idea then; didn't think I could describe it well enough in words. I'm very much looking forward to this and wish you all the best of luck!

    Here's a refinement:

    I guess the initial measure (trial cylinder inside the O-rings for measurement) should be an auxiliary layer, marking the measure of the rims + sewing thread. Let's call this "Layer 0", since it will not be part of the finished rims.

    The next layer inwars should be 3.14 x paper thickness x 2 ≈ 3 x 0,15 x 2 ≈ 1 mm shorter (depending on paper thickness of course; recalculate to what you're using; I was thinking about 200g paper 0.25 mm thick; hence the 1.5 mm reference). Let's call this "Layer 1". It is the outermost layer of the multi-layered cylinder we are making.

    Each layer inwards is 1 mm shorter.

    Let's say we make a rim of 2 layers, plus one extra, wider, layer to be folded over the two other layers. Those will be layers 1, 2, and 3.

    Start by designing layer 3 in the computer with two pair of parallell lines, wider than the rim itself, since this is what you want to fold up over the rim towards the tyre.

    Now draw up layers 2 and 1 as strips - just strips, the width of the actual rim. Mark layer 1 (strip) with dots, exact number of spokes you wish to make. However, use the remaining parts of layers 1 & 2 as three auxiliary sections to glue up the innermost cylinder 3 on the outsides and center of the cylinder for stability. Just make sure you cut these auxiliar pieces to leave a free space around the markings of the innermost layer 3, the one with marks for cutting out the finished rim.

    Layer 0 is divided up in three similar sections. This is the one which will fit snugly inside the O-rings. It will leave one paper thickness to be filled out with sewing thread on the rims, and is not part of the finished rim.

    Glue up the cylinder so that the joints of each layer are spread around the circumference. What you get is a four-layer cylinder, with two sections where you have the two-layered rims (1 & 2) glued as strips on the marked inner No. 3 layer in a recess. The rest is just reinforcement to be cut away eventually.

    Add the formers with the rolled paper axle and small hub sections glued on; wire axle inside the whole length.

    Drill holes with a 0.5 mm drill if you have one. Start sewing down on the outside, around the hub out again on the opposite side of the rim. Continue with the same long thread down through the next hole, over the other side of the hub and out again through the hole next to the one you started from. Continue until done. Shove O-rings over the thread layer & glue on the sides. White glue might suffice, since - after drying - you will cut out along the lines for the innermost, wider, layer 3 and glue again, this time bending this wider rim section up over the two other layers and against the tyre.

    This is how I'm thinking about it. Whether it is doable, I can only hope...

    Kind regards

    - Leif

    Thank you for the reflections & sketches!

    My thoughts go like this: Perhaps you could use a paper cylinder (one or several layers) which fits into the O-rings. You place two O-rings on the cylinder, several centimeters aparts. On the inside you place two provisional formers (round, not glued) slight inside the position of the O-rings. Shift the O-rings a bit apart, but keep them on the cyliner. Then sew through the paper cylinders to create the spokes. Shift the O-rings to cover the spokes, glue, and cut out the rims with O-rings attached.

    That would be the principle I had in mind. Of course, to do it more elegantly, I thought you would start by rolling one paper tube which fits more or less inside the O-rings. Mark the position for an absolute good fit. Remove and cut along the marks. This is your basic template for making the rims.

    Now go into the computer and draw a simple rectangle with correct measurement. Make lines for positioning the O-rings. Make dotted lines between these tyre positions, with the correct number of dots to enable exact sewing.

    Now draw up another rectangle, which is ca 1.5 mm shorter. This will make a double inside layers. Make a similar third one, yet 1,5 mm shorter again, if you feel it would be necessary. Glue up the two- or three-layered cylinder. This will be your rims eventually.

    Make the inside formers, correct diameter to fit inside. This is is to stabilize while sewing. Glue them on a provisional shaft/axle of paper tube, positioned a bit inside the wheel positions marked. Insert wire axle into paper tube for stability.

    Now shove the formers on their axle inside, and the O-rings on the outside. Do not glue. This is just to stabilize the rims and position the axle absolutely centered while sewing the spokes.

    Sew the spokes, one from each side. Shove the O-rings to the right position and glue. Cut the rims. Discard cut-off portions of the paper cylinder. Add small centerpieces. Remove wire axle, and cut paper tubes.

    You might refine the process by thinking about how to make the inner rim layer slightly wider, and bend that over towards the tyre. This would make you concave surfaces.

    I'm just thinking out loud here. Thanks for the opportunity!

    Kind regards, Leif

    The quality of your work on this model is excellent, as for exampel the wheels and the rigging. What have you used for rigging? And what method for the spoked wheels?

    I congratulate you on the decision to make the framework out of wood. I always thought that this kind of model both deserves and benefits from sticking close to the original method of construction.

    All that being said, don't you think, now at the end of it, that your effort would have deserved a better original to start with? I seemed to read something like that between the lines...


    Just a question - is Oriel and "der Kampfflieger" the same company? Roman Vasilyev is obviously the designer of the UT-1, as can be seen from the 1/32 download version also available (for example from Ecardmodels).

    I have both versions (a scan of your printed 1/33 version, and a purchased 1/32 download copy). The same mistake occurs in the download version, although parts there are better laid out:

    I'm grateful to you for pointing out this mistake. Although apparent enough once you've cut out the parts (like you did), I failed to notice it just looking at the kit. Nevertheless, there are people out there who have managed to make quite nice models from this kit, as can be seen from the Ecardmodels page and other sites on the internet:

    The advantage of using the download version is that you can extract the vector original from it, hide the paint section, and repaint it without loss of quality. There were, as you have alreday noted, many interesting variants of the UT-1:

    There is also a nice (vector) repaint of the Yak UT-2 (Maly Modelarz original of the two-seater version) out there on sites which in most respects are not quite kosher.

    I do however feel free to mention the existence of this version, since the model in question is a complete vector redrawing (and much better for it) of an original from 1964 that I don't think exist any longer in print.

    Your build report is very valuable, pointing out the existing mistakes. Anyone attempting this model will be warned, and can make adjustments beforehand. Please, if you can, be as specific as possible as to mismatches. The underside, for example, where is the mismatch, and how many millimeters? Anything like this will make it easier to compensate and correct parts, particularly if you extract the vector version.

    With such valuable help, I'd feel confident to return to this model and make something of it.

    Kind regards, Leif

    It can be a little tricky, even for me, even after several successful orders, to find out exactly where to click "Download". Here's how I can re-download models I've paid for (you get several download attempts for each single order):

    1. Go to "My account", at the very top of the webpage. You will be prompted to log in. Do that, with username & the code you've chosen yourself earlier.

    2. You will arrive at a list of your recent orders. Do NOT click on any of those. Instead Click on "My downloadable products" in the left column.

    3. Now we are close. You will get a new list, much alike the previous one. Under each item, you will find a line saying "DOWNLOAD MODEL". Click on that one. Should work.

    The frustrating thing is that if you bring up your individual order, of the model you actually wish to download, you will encounter no less than three versions of "Download", "Download", and "DOWNLOAD". None of them will result in a download. You've got to do as in step 1-3.

    Frustrating, until you figure out how. Hope this will help.

    - Leif

    Thanks for the source. Have you noticed this one about Marie Marvingt:

    "On 8 November 1910 Marvingt became the third woman in the world licenced as an aeroplane pilot, the second Frenchwoman after Raymonde de Laroche, and the only woman ever licenced in the difficult to fly Antoinette monoplane. In her first 900 flights she never "broke wood" in a crash, a record unequalled at that time. She participated in many airshows and in December 1910, while competing in Turin for the Coupe Femina (Femina Cup), she set the first official women's flight records for duration and distance at 53 minutes and 42 kilometers."

    Looking forward to next installment! - L.

    Beautiful work, and a fine report on how to do accomplish it.

    On the original the rudder wires, as you say, continue uninterupted to the pedals. Therefore there is a small oval cut out in the fabric cover, to allow for the slight side movement of the wires. There is a good way to replicate this, but it requires planning well ahead. You can glue long strips of control wires for the rudder on the inside of the cover part, continuing forwards so to speak, while sticking out from the top and sides without any glue visible on the outside. When you come to the rigging part, tensioning the wires will make even less of a bend at the surface this way, and the method allows for quite strong tension. Just a thought for your next project.

    The model is exquisite. - L.

    This photo should be of some help as regards the rudder wires. Note that the elevator actuating horn and wires were on the right side only. How the rudder wires ran is clearly visible as well:

    The image is here, at Wikimedia Commons, and it is very large in original, so that you should be able to study the details further. The original aircraft is exhibited at the Musée de l'Air, le Bourget, Paris, France. There are more Wikimedia Common photos of that aircraft here. (It's not the 16-cylinder Antoinette, but the rudder wiring should be similar, right?)

    Above is a page from the manual of the Macca's Vintage Aerodrome model of the Antoinette VII. It's just a model, I know, but this company makes a point of creating very true-to-scale models, so the principle of the control wires should be accurate. (Download the manual here.)

    Here's the IPMS Deutschland Antoinette VII page.

    Finally, as a premature Christmas present, here's a Flickr page of "the World's Best Pictures" of the Antoinette. Not least prominent is the 16-cylinder engine you made. Pretty good likeness you achieved! (I suspect Gustav has already been here, but a quick visit there will make the rest of us appreciate Gustav's work even more...).

    - L.

    You've done something to the exhaust tubes, haven't you, Gustav? Very good result, looks most authentic with the blue shading. In fact, the best I've seen as far as I can remember. Congratulations.

    You are not backing from any difficult little detail are you, what with the ignition cables and all. Very commendable, and most impressive.

    Thank you also for the fine original photo. Gives you a idea how this engine really wasn't as heavy as you might expect from a 16-cylinder (wow...) apparatus.

    You are doing fine, and it is a joy to watch!

    - L.

    16 cylinders, never knew that...

    You did them the hard way, didn't you, cutting upp brass rods. Very good work, and looking mighty fine. An alternative could have been rolled paper cylinders painted with that kind of Humbrol enamel which imitates metal (steel, bronze, copper, aluminium, etc), which can be polished to very natural metal look.

    But you will always have the satisfaction of knowing that there's real metal in your engine, of course! ;)


    Good that you make real spokes. I have never tried that, but would very much want to. There are several good tutorials for how to make spoked wheels with common sewing thread or similar. See the download section at (site is temporarily down, otherwise I would have supplied the direct links). Search for "Spoked wheels".

    Your wheels are very well made, though, in that comparatively small scale. I wish I would be able to make something like that, sometime.

    Warm greetings, Leif

    Let's try to sort out the engine problems:

    Here is a Wikimedia Commons photo of a two-cylinder Darracq engine. It's not the exact version used by Santos Dumont, but still good to get the principles of it. What you see most clearly is the carburettor and intake tubes. Note here that Santos Dumont clearly had this engine mounted upside down in the Paris museum version, the carburettor and intake tubes downwards.

    the two images above are from a very good Flickr photostream. You will get a very good view of what the carburettor and intake tubes looked like.

    The one above is from a complete story of Santos Dumont and all his aircraft, the N:o 20, "Demoiselle", being last in the row. The closeup of the engine is very good.

    Above a clear view of the fuel tank, placed behind the engine and hidden in most photos! This is a rare photo from the same Flickr photostream as above. Two more from the same source:

    These views of the pilot could be helpful to trace how the control system worked. I'm not quite clear on that as yet.

    Finally, note the direction of rotation of the prop - it is clockwise as seen from the front. Easy to get that wrong, if you don't think about it. Several photos show the opposite direction of rotation, so that varied between engines I suppose. But the Paris museum aircraft has clockwise direction.

    I've been thinking about the header tank for cooling fluid. I now don't believe there was one. The tank behind the engine has got to be the fuel tank. Where else would that be?

    Kind regards, Leif

    Hello Gustav,

    glad you got some help out of it! I learned a lot as well, as I believe you can see. What I don't understand yet, is how the rudder wires were connected. Here's what the drawings say:

    • Rudder control was by the stick. I presume it was leaned sideways, left & right. How, exactly, did the rudder wires run from that? Pedals were static, just foot rests.

    • Elevator control was by a wheel, no less, on the left side. Much like an ordinary trim wheel in later aircraft.

    • Wingwarping was by a rod BEHIND the pilot. It was stuck into a pocket of the pilots jacet, I believe. This resembles the Wright brothers' first 1903 attemt, with a sliding trolley where the pilot lay prone, and could shift his weight towards right or left, thereby actuating the wingwarping. Santos Dumont leaned left & right, thus actuating the rod in the back of his jacket. So far so good. But how did the wingwarping control wires run from there? Some say the center of the wheel axle, but I can't get my head around that. I believe only the trailing edges of the wings warped, and the return wires must runt through the rear post above the wing.

    This is only speculation on my part, but it would be interesting to hear what you arrive at eventually, when you get to that point in your build thread. (Thanks for pointing me to it!)

    Incidentally, you have noticed the two posts above the wings, carrying the landing wires? Some models don't seem to have them, and modern replicas often leave them out. But I do believe the original Demoiselle must have had those, if for nothing else wingwarping return wires. But the 1910 replica in the photos earlier does not have them, and neither do the drawings. Were there different versions of the Demoiselle?

    As for the Antoinette, you will find two versions of it at Ecardmodels, plus another Demoiselle. They are not expensive at all, and there's no extra cost for shipping. Electrons run freely!

    Good luck now with your build!