1

Freitag, 8. Juni 2007, 17:53

Raiden GPM 1/33

This is the 20th model I have completed since I started card modeling.
There were no works I completed without making mistakes.
I think this is one of reason that I get hooked on card modeling.
If I could make them perfectly, I would lose my interest.
When the products arrives my home, I always pledge to myself that this time I must make it without mistakes. But it's a pipe dream.

For dark skin color of this model, rivets on the skin was almost invisible.
To emphasize all rivets I pushed them all with pen point. How foolish I was!!! But, you can see rivets clealy in a close-up phot around canopy.

In general, there seem to be some dimensional mistakes on Japanese planes. I guess the reason would be insufficient documents and data available in East Europe.
Circumference of rear side of cowling of this model was too big so I cut it about 4mm to get appropriate shape refering to photos of real plane and etc. I gethered on internet.
»Yu Gyokubun« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • r_1008_50%.jpg
  • r_1010_50%.jpg
  • r_1011_50%.jpg
  • r_1012_50%.jpg
  • raiden_105_50%.jpg

GreMir

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Freitag, 8. Juni 2007, 20:28

Yu,

=D> =D> =D>

Excellent work!!!!
All models are excellent but Japanese planes are closest to my personal interests...

I would like to invite you also to English cardmodeling forum www.cardmodels.net. There are many more modelers in the world ;)
Michael Krol
www.gremirmodels.com

MHBS

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Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, 05:13

Dear Yu,

this one looks great again! Talking about Japanese planes, did you also work together with Kami-Mokei? There are wonderful photos from a built Zero amoung others...

Hope you will show us more of your work,

Matthias

4

Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, 07:52

Hi Michael,

Thank you for introducing me cardmodel.ne. I visited there and took a quick tour. I found many exelent models!!! I am very happy to know there are many card model enthusiasts like me in this forum and there.
I am not alone!

Hi Matthias,

I used to buy card models from Kami-Mokei and sent many of my finished works fotos that I posted here.


Best regards,

MHBS

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Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, 08:15

Thanks Yu!

Since you got models from them, may I ask whether Kami-Mokei has a store in Tokyo or do they only mail models?

Thanks,

Matthias

6

Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, 08:23

Hi Matthias,

They have no store. Only mail models.
But, imported models they add their overhead. So the price becomes extremely high. Recently I buy foreign models ordering foreign retail site directly.

Best regards,

MHBS

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Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, 08:26

Thanks a lot Yu!

Yes, you are right in saying that their prices are too high compared to directly ordering from Europe. In particular when making bigger orders to bring down the shipping cost. That's why I never board from Kami-Mokei. But a shop would have been something to look at...

Thanks again,

Matthias

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Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, 21:22

Hi,

very good work @)

Lukasz Fuczek ;-)

MASH

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Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, 22:05

hi Yu!

Wich universe do you come from? :D

Reg. HAPE

TAD

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10

Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2007, 23:21

Dear Friend,
congratulations with your model, but I can't agree with your WAY of making discussion. As the author of this model is my friend, I want to protest against such unpleasent behaviour you just showed here.

I don't understand what you men here: "In general, there seem to be some dimensional mistakes on Japanese planes. I guess the reason would be insufficient documents and data available in East Europe.
Circumference of rear side of cowling of this model was too big so I cut it about 4mm to get appropriate shape refering to photos of real plane and etc. I gethered on internet."

Firstly - this "poor" East Europe you mentioned realeses most of the cartoon models in the world. We really DO have a lot of materials - thanks to this polish models are so good and wanted in all the world. Probably becouse of that we really DO have proper materials you didn't assembly model from other country - but this from East Europe...

We don't live on desert my friend...

Secondly - can you show us how did you discovered that " Circumference of rear side of cowling of this model was too big to appropriate shape"? And exactly 4 mm??? Well - you must have some super power to get such think only FROM WATCHING PHOTOS ON INTERNET. If we did the same here in "poor" East Europe we would be shamed talking such things publically. We would be laughing stock to many - as You just did...

Instead of using super powers we prefer reffering to real existing materials - not only photos gathered on net. And we can proof we are right. Please show us your unusuall method of discovering such mistakes from WATCHING PICTURES. Can you show us that those 4 mm wasn't your own fault - made by your own skills?

Thirdly - plase explaine what exactly "some dimensional mistakes on Japanese planes" you meant talking about this model. Maybe you treate modellism in the same way as the thruth about planes - just "by eye"? Maybe in fact you told us about your health problems (something with your eyes)?

Insetad of establish that something was wrong in this model try to look for problems in yourself: in your skills, your eyes or in poor photos you gathered on th net. Here in "poor" East Europe we really care for such things like good materials - we do not rely on super powers...

Sorry for my bad language and for my rude style - you didn't pay attention talking such unresonably things publically, so I feel free responding the same way. Especially I know very well works of Lukasz Fuczek and I'm sure you're wrong and do not have proofs for your accusations.
TAD
Nothing hurts like a life...

11

Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2007, 00:31

Dear Tad,

First of all I would like you to understand I did not say "poor East Europe".
I meant East Europe is far away country. In Japan sometimes same thing happens. I mean foreign country's airplane or ship etc. released by japanese model manufacturer's sometimes have similar error. I think that because those countries are far away and enough data and documents are not available.

In the second place, I of course know that many of card model publishers are East Europeans and thanks to their models we enjoy card modelling.

Why I mentioned what you said unpleasant stems from my experience. First one was about SHINDEN.
In this URL, I found real airplanes pictures.
http://www.geocities.jp/jp_j7w1_shinden/start-e.html
next one is the work some Japanese modeller made without modefying original kit.
http://www.kami-mokei.com/guest/ohata4.html
then this work was done by me modifying fuselage configulation around rear of canopy
http://www.kami-mokei.com/guest/gyoku08.htm

As you said, I might have eye problem. But, to my eyes, it seems different.

About Raiden, I did not leave any picture before modifying. So, I must buy new one to check. I might have eye problem and I must check honestry and if I am wrong I must say it.

You might be right. Because one day I saw one modeller's construction report about certain model. In his report he said " I would like to say to engineer that he made mistake" or something. I did not remember what exactly he said. Then I believe it and started construction of the same model. Later I found out engineer was right and he was wrong.

In Raiden's case same might be applied. Let me buy new one and check it. Then I will again inform you.


Best regards,

GreMir

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12

Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2007, 01:23

Tad,
I know Lukasz as well and I can tell you that you are not helping him, just the opposite.
The only person being rude here is you. The only person making any accusations is you again.
Yu made observation about the model he built, nothing else. He did not start calling names, no personal insinuations.
As for the materials used to design the Raiden or other planes - give us a list of what was used and then we can discuss validity of those sources.
Remember discussion on konradus website about errors in the Shinden model? If not, find it, read it and then reconsider your statements.

Yu,
Keep building Japanese planes and keep showing them off. Every photo of your models is saved on my hard drive for future reference.
Michael Krol
www.gremirmodels.com

René Pinos

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13

Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2007, 01:25

Dear Tad,

Please control your emotions and calm down. This is in no words what Yu said.

I understand and it honors you to protect your friend. Yu just expressed his experience without claiming designes faults.

Especially for friends of the Shinden, I have a nice picture. Two of this airplane still existing, disassembled in Smithonian Institution USA. I own a copy of the Manual on Design of the Shinden and there is a big miracle. The fuselage shows a belly at nose gear bay. No picture to my knowledge shows this shape, no kit neither in plastic (Hasegawa 1/48 ) nor Orlik's 1/32 paper modell. But the manual data are taken directly from the two captured original units.

I want to say that it is really difficult to have original data available and if you might believe they are serious, you have to realize that they are wrong.

Servus
René
»René Pinos« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Rumpf.jpg
  • shinden2.jpg
Die Phönizier haben das Geld erfunden, aber warum so wenig? (Johann Nestroy)

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »René Pinos« (21. Juni 2007, 01:27)


14

Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2007, 04:31

Dear gentlemen,

As one of modeler who loves card modeling, I thought it might be good to report what I noticed during construction so that other modelers can pay attention to the section I pointed out regardless of the cause attributable to my poor skill or eye problem. In case my observation is correct, other modeler will not have discouraging experience. Even in case my observation is wrong, it will not be bad for those modelers. It will be good to card modeling in the end, I think. If one, especially novice card modeler, experience unsatisfied result, he or she might not continue card modeling. I would like to avoid such unfavorable result of loosing would-be card model buddies.

Once I learned that it is very hard for designers to design certain model. Sometimes they have to count on only existing pictures. Like Shinden’s case, some of them said to design model just observing pictures of real plane. Shinden’s height at the top of canopy is about 2.3 meters if my memory is correct. Camera man must have taken picture from below. The impression we get from those pictures is small canopy. But, pictures taken from above disassembled real plane in Smithosonian gives us impression that canopy is not small. I mean, shape of Shinden varies depend on interpretation of designers.

As a modeler, also I interpret it in my way and modify it for my self-satisfaction.

There must be many interpretation depend on each person and it is not bad. This is one way of enjoying modeling.

As two gentlemen mentioned, I am not claiming designers. On the contrary, as I wrote above for the purpose just reporting on what point we better pay attention in making certain models.

Finally, I must express my appreciation for European designers in publishing Japanese airplanes, ships and etc. in succession. In Japan there are less card model publishers comparable to European publisher especially in designing detailed models.

Regards,

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Yu Gyokubun« (21. Juni 2007, 09:36)


TAD

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15

Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2007, 09:46

Friends,
why are you talking about Shinden??? This threat is about RAIDEN - this way we soon land somwhere about Moskito - new job of LF...

You - I didn't say you shouldn't talk about mistakes in model. I just protest against your WAY of making discussion. No proofs, no pictures, not showing anything - just came and said "this was wrong" - and "exactly by 4mm". You even didn't think, that your skills could be rather poor and mistakes could be done becouse of this.

I will use the same "right" way of "arguing": your model has serious modellars cons - is done rather poor. I feel free from support my opinion with facts - what for? You like such way of empty accusations.

I don't care what you mean about East Europe - care what you said. Just use some HUMILITY and start looking for mistakes by yourself - not here in East Europe, not in our materials or elswhere. Usualy poor modellars start looking for mistakes anywhere around - not in their skills...

Gremir - how could I get the list of planes (materials) used by author??? I'm not the author of this kit. Just ask him.

What I wanted to say was that You ought to show us some proofs first - not only light-minded accusations against this kit. In my reports from bulding I have to get really strong proofs before I said "this wasn't my fool - this was done wrong by author". I expect You will show us such strong proofs about RAIDEN he claimed to be wrong. Other way it will be "discussion" like this - without facts and proofs - I don't like this way amongst serious people.
TAD
Nothing hurts like a life...

GreMir

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16

Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2007, 12:04

Zitat

Originally posted by TAD

...
Gremir - how could I get the list of planes (materials) used by author??? I'm not the author of this kit. Just ask him.
...


Then why you even started this discussion????????????
Few posts above Lukasz liked his plane, now you are blowing simple innocent statement way out of proportion, start some kind of crusade in defence of Eastern Europe, and accuse fellow modeler of some sinister motives.
You want to show Yu is wrong? Build the Raiden, show photos of construction progress and be done with it.
Please, don't start again about Yu not showing photos of errors encountered - he already mentioned elsewhere that he never thought about taking photos during construction. Not knowing about cardmodel forums he simply was not aware of the need.
Michael Krol
www.gremirmodels.com

Jan Hascher

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17

Donnerstag, 21. Juni 2007, 12:37

OK guys,
calm down, back to normal. This is a gallery thread and nothing else. If you like to discuss the topic open a new topic. And be nice.

Jan
Moderator
Jeder, der einen Post mit "Ich habe zwar keine Ahnung, aber..." beginnt, möge bitte den Absenden-Button ignorieren.

18

Freitag, 22. Juni 2007, 03:40

Hi Norm,

Thank you very much for your kind words as usual.

When I am making model, I forget all the stress I feel.
It’s a happiest moment. Whatever the appearance of the finished model, I am happy to make them and experience a sense of accomplishment

Going through this thread and reading your comment, I recalled when I finished modeling of Shinden.
Having seen completed model, I felt its front fuselage looks longer than real plane. Then I checked horizontal to vertical ratio comparing to side view in hand. As far as I remember the ratio was almost same as the side view I referred. Or, my memory is wrong.
I told about this to my fellow modeler. He told me interesting story about model designing. He said when plastic model manufacturer design car model, they change horizontal to vertical ratio to certain degree.
Although I haven’t checked if his statement was correct or not going to the trouble of buying car model, it is understandable.
According to him, our image of cars comes to mind is imprinted seeing real cars from side in daily life. But, when we see model, usually we see it from above.
If car model is designed as exact horizontal to vertical ratio as real one, it looks longer. So designers cut length short to give same impression as viewer have.

Together with the comment you wrote, there is more to modeling than meet the eyes. So it is enjoyable.
Let's card modeling!!!

With kindest regards,

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