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Tuesday, October 25th 2005, 2:04am

Hohenzollern Castle / Schreiber / 1:125 [FERTIG]

Hello,
I have begun 'Hohenzollern Castle'. (J.F. Schreiber, 1:125) When I first opened the shipping package, I was struck by the vivid, bold colours of the sheets. It was a little shocking to see these vibrant colours. Quite a contrast to the muted soft tones of Hamburger Michel, another model under construction. The artwork is quite two-dimensional and stark. My first impression of the model was 'LEGO'!
When light shone across the surface of the sheets at an angle, the printing appeared quite uneven. Intense, saturated colour areas 'jumped' out. To even out the printed surfaces and tone down the shine of the paper, the sheets were sprayed with a clear matte finish. (Photo 1)
I wonder if this is a very early Schreiber model. It seems a bit of an anomaly to the other models. Also, the paper is very heavy and grey on the back. Cutting the parts is like cutting cereal box cardboard.
However, the model has a wealth of architectural interest and detail. It may be a bit of an oddball to the others, but that may be just what is required to add interest to a model collection. I will persevere.
John

Hallo,
Ich habe mit dem 'Schloß Hohenzollern' (Schreiber 1:125) begonnen. Als ich das Paket aufmachte, wurde ich von den lebhaften, kräftigen Farben erschlagen. Diese kräftigen Farben waren ein wenig schockierend. Ein ziemlicher Kontrast zu den gedämpften und weichen Tönen des Hamburger Michel, den ich auch in Arbeit habe. Der Druck ist sehr zweidimensional und öde. Um die gedruckten Flächen etwas anzugleichen und den Glanz herauszunehmen, habe ich die Bögen matt eingesprüht (Bild 1).
Ich frage mich, ob das ein sehr frühes Schreibermodell ist. Es ist etwas ungewöhnlich im Vergleich zu den anderen. Auch ist das Papier sehr schwer und auf der Rückseite grau. Das Ausschneiden der Teile ist ein bißchen wie bei Frühstücksflocken-Kartons. Nichtsdestotrotz hat das Modell ein gewisses architektonisches Interesse und eine gute Detaillierung. Es sticht etwas heraus im Vergleich zu anderen, aber vielleicht ist es grade das was gebraucht wird, um das Interesse auf eine Modellsammlung zu ziehen. Ich werde jedenfalls durchhalten.
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Tuesday, October 25th 2005, 2:11am

Here is a shot (Photo2) of the early stages of construction. I found that since the sheets were sprayed, they tended to cup. A lot of the flat wall surfaces had to be reinforced with card. I must say that the parts seem to be fitting very well.
John

Hier ist ein Bild in einem frühen Baustadium. Ich habe gemerkt, daß die Bögen aufgrund der Lackierung dazu neigen beulig zu werden. Viele der graden Wände musste ich mit Karton verstärken. Ich muss sagen, die Teile scheinen sehr gut zu passen.
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  • Hohenzollern Castle1.jpg

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Tuesday, October 25th 2005, 3:41am

John - I've built this model about 20 years ago, so it's definitely not a recent one ;)

John - ich hab dieses Modell vor etwa 20 Jahren gebaut, es ist also definitiv kein neueres.

Cheers,

Oliver
  • FERTIG & JETZT ZU HABEN: Schaufelradschlepper "Anglia", 1866
  • In Vorbereitung: Ein echter "Publikumsliebling"
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Sunday, October 30th 2005, 1:39am

Here is the second installment of Hohenzollern Castle. When I started this model, I was rather put off by the garish colours and simplistic artwork. But as I get into it, it is growing on me. The parts continue to fit well! Outside corners tend to spread with the thick cardstock, but seem to colour up quite well. The first shot shows the addition of Bishop's Tower and the baronial hall. Shot two shows the courtyard that is surrounded by these parts as well as the Kaiserbau and the Michael Tower.
The third shot show the substructure under the courtyard. This was not the designer's intended method of fixing this courtyard. Hanging courtyards by their tabs approximately a third of the way up surrounding building walls just doesn't work for me. In house construction, this would be similar to balloon framing where the studs run from floor plate right past the first floor on up to the top plate of the second floor. The first floor is 'hung' on ledges or sills fastened to these wall studs. A far better method of installing courtyards in my humble opinion is to use the platform framing technique. A substructure is built on the baseplate of the model and the reinforced courtyard is layed on top. The surrounding buildings then snuggle up to the sides of the fixed courtyard. If you have built Schreiber's Neuschwanstein Castle you will have experienced a fine example of this building technique. Here, in Hohenzollern the substructure can be clearly seen.
I would also suggest that reinforcing a courtyard is a wise move. You may think a courtyard is flat unreinforced, but it is not. The eye is very unforgiving. Unless you WANT the courtyard to undulate, spray adhesive a cardboard stiffener under it. The difference is quite noticable. The courtyard will not sag at its edges where it is probably cantilevered over the substructure. When the building is presented to the edge of the courtyard, it meets at the intended elevation. (Tip: reinforce the wall of the building also if it will mate with the courtyard.The courtyard won't flex, but the wall may ripple or cave with the glue as you attempt to press it against the edge of the courtyard.)
Sorry for going on so much about this, but I've come close to disaster many times trying to get courtyards to meet walls properly.
John
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  • One.jpg
  • Two.jpg

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "John" (Oct 31st 2005, 7:42pm)


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Sunday, October 30th 2005, 1:49am

Another shot of the platform style of constructing a courtyard.
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  • Lifting Courtyard.jpg

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "John" (Oct 31st 2005, 7:45pm)


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Sunday, October 30th 2005, 2:15am

Hallo John,

Du hast in allen Punkten recht, denn dieses Modell in dieser sowohl farblich wie auch papiermäßig schlechten Qualität habe ich schon in den 60igern gebaut und in den 80igern noch einmal. Die schlechte Qualität ist in jeder Hinsicht bis heute geblieben! Leider!! 8oDafür ist Hohenzollern aber 10x teurer :(geworden!! Ist doch toll, nicht!?

Meint der

Hansi
Die ersehnte Ruhe in der Freizeit hat ihre Tücken. Man könnte zum Nachdenken kommen.

Im Bau
Maly Modelarz - PzKpfw VI "Tiger" Ausf. H1
- Immer noch nicht fertig - wird auch nie fertig

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Monday, November 7th 2005, 2:55pm

RE: Hohenzollern Castle

Here is the addition of the armoury on the right side of the courtyard. Note the two octagonal stair towers on each side of the portal. Because there is no access to the armoury building from below, a hole was cut in the end of the building to allow the roof to be supported while the back of the towers were being glued to the roof.
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  • Armoury.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 7th 2005, 2:56pm)


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Monday, November 7th 2005, 3:00pm

RE: Hohenzollern Castle

Here is a shot of the end of the courtyard. Note the round stair tower. A lot of the towers are partial in their lower sections and complete once they pass above the rooves. To keep the lower sections from spreading out while being pressed against walls, templates are glued under their tabs to hold them to their correct shape.
John
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  • Stair Tower.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 7th 2005, 3:02pm)


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Monday, November 7th 2005, 3:18pm

This is progressing at break-neck speed, isn't it...

The cardboard stiffener to be sparyed on, I would really like to know a bit more about. What is it? Any chance of picking it up in Europe, you think?

Best, Leif
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Monday, November 7th 2005, 4:59pm

Hi Leif,
I am a part owner in a gallery and spend many hours hosting. Often it is very quiet with few visitors and very little foot traffic passing by. To keep myself sane (with something to do), I sit on my little stool at the counter and cardmodel! The hours then fly by. It is often a great conversation starter when visitors do come into the Gallery. (I am a woodturner and this is also where I display and sell my work.) So you see, the model that I work on at the gallery can move along quite nicely in a six hour shift. Right now, it's Hohenzollern at the Gallery and Michel at home.
You are inquiring about the spray adhesive. Have I misled you? I mentioned that I spray adhesive a stiffener to the bottom of courtyards. I mean I use a spray adhesive to glue the printed sheet to a 1mm or heavier piece of card stock. Are you asking about the spray product or did you think IT was some sort of thickener? Sorry for the confusion in my text. By the way, the spray adhesive is the best on the market, not to be confused with many of the cheap craft adhesives on the market. If that's the information you want, let me know.
Thanks for the inquiry. We learn so much on this forum.
Cheers...John

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 8th 2005, 12:16am)


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Monday, November 7th 2005, 5:41pm

Oops! Sorry for that slip-up. I'm on the same page now. I did indeed think you had aquired some miracle product, of hitherto unknown origin...

That's OK then; I've got the spray adhesive alright. Smells awful, but invaluable when backing up sheets or larger parts on thicker card.

Leif
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Tuesday, November 8th 2005, 4:31am

This shot shows the added Michaelis Chapel directly opposite the armoury. The courtyard will ramp down to lower levels on the right, and the entire model will be lifted up 6 cm by surrounding curtain walls.
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  • The Bastion.jpg

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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 1:07am

This shot shows the construction of the chapel courtyard. The substructure can be clearly seen. The lower edge of the white cardstock shown in the photo has NOT been glued down. The bottom tab of the exterior wall to be added next will slide UNDER these white supporting card pieces when it is applied.
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  • Chapel Courtyard.jpg

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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 2:15am

...and here is the courtyard with the exterior wall applied. Note that the tops of the inner merlons are slightly highter than the outer ones. Rather than cut them down, I will touch them up with watercolour.
While I'm on the subject of watercolour, here are the colours used to touch up scored edges. The colours are so bold it is easy to use colours right out of the tube. The roof's blue is touched up with Cerulean Blue (W&N Series 3AA). Naples Yellow (W&N Series 1A) is great for the many yellow sections. Indian Red (W&N Cotman 317) is a bit darker but works well on the crenels and merlons.
I have yet to try the watercolour pencils recommended by Leif. The tan colour of the curtain walls will be an excellent spot to try the pencil watercolour.

Cheers...John
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  • Exterior Wall.jpg

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Friday, November 11th 2005, 2:00am

It has been a slow day at the Gallery. I have had time to spend on Hohenzollern. The hole in the end of the armoury is now covered with the back of a chapel wall. The nine little rooves of this chapel posed a problem. After installing three of them on one side, I realized that the fourth and all subsequent ones were larger! There are three on each side and three at the front. You guessed it. I put the three that were intended for the end on a side. To solve the problem I modified the remaining ones.
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  • Chapel1.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 11th 2005, 2:02am)


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Friday, November 11th 2005, 2:03am

A different angle...
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Friday, November 11th 2005, 2:04am

The Bastion so far...
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Friday, November 11th 2005, 4:12am

RE: Hohenzollern Castle

Michael,
Yes, this model does look almost like a child's toy! I mentioned in my opening post that my first impression of it was 'Lego!' I really don't understand how his model fits in with the Schreiber line. I didn't think I was going to enjoy the build, but it drew me in. It is packed with interesting architectural details.
It is huge! I had no idea it was going to be over two feet long and a foot high. Its dimensions are 66 cm long, 36 cm wide and 34 cm high. What you see in the pictures so far is just the upper level of the model. When its done, it will be raised up 6cm and surrounded completely by a curtain wall and circular gardens.
Thanks for the interest.
John

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 11th 2005, 4:13am)


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Sunday, November 13th 2005, 7:39pm

Hello John,

This model is really colourful. I took a picture of this castle at an exhibition showing the designs of Hubert Siegmund. The coloring looks much more decent than the one of your model.
The roofs of the real castle usually look grey if you see it from the ground. But with the sun shining on the roofs sometimes they really look blue-grey if you see them from above.
The first picture I took on November, 1st, the second one yesterday. Just for reference: on the wing of the plane you can see a blue line.

Cheers

Thomas
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Sunday, November 13th 2005, 8:39pm

RE: Hohenzollern Castle

Hohenzollern...you might want to hang a RCAF fighter in front of it, as it was the favourite backdrop for 4 Wing PR shots over the years.

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equip/g…er/104_f18s.jpg

Regards,
Rick Thomson
When in danger, or in doubt,
Run in circles, scream and shout

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Monday, November 14th 2005, 2:38am

RE: Hohenzollern Castle

Hi Rick,
Thank you so much for the photo of the fighters flying by the castle. This means a great deal to me! For me, building architectural models is just the beginning of the historical research connected with the structures. You have brought this castle to life!! I must show this photo to my brother-in-law, an RCAF doctor stationed in Germany in the 60's.(3 Wing)

Here is a shot of the castle courtyard completed with the exception of the fountain in the well and a few other minor pieces.
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  • Castle Courtyard.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 14th 2005, 4:21am)


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Monday, November 14th 2005, 2:41am

RE: Hohenzollern Castle

This shot shows the gate tower and the ramp up to the courtyard on the right.
The next step in this construction is the raising of the bastion 6cm so that the outer curtain walls can be added. I plan to build a substructure that will carry the weight of the castle. The walls will not bear weight and will simple 'hang' around the edges.
John
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  • Gate Tower and Ramp.jpg

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Monday, November 14th 2005, 4:37am

RE: Hohenzollern Castle

Hi Thomas,
Thank you for the wonderful aerial photos. Definetely keepers to accompany the model. You actually took these real time this month? Incredible!
Cheers...John

P.S. I am using the 'vivid' setting on my camera. I think I better get it off. The colours jump out enough on their own.
J.L.

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Monday, November 14th 2005, 8:56am

Quoted

I took a picture of this castle at an exhibition showing the designs of Hubert Siegmund.

Aber ich muss dazu sagen, dass Schloss Hohenzollern nicht aus der Feder von Hubert Siegmund stammt, sondern eindeutig ein Modell der Wende 19./20. Jahrhundert ist, was Konstruktion, Farbgebung und Zeichenstil angeht.

:usenglish:
I have to add, that Castle Hohenzollern is not the work of constructor Hubert Siegmund, but rather and clearly a model from the turn of the 19th/20th century, concerning construction, colour and drawing style.

Grüße von
von

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Monday, November 14th 2005, 9:31am

Hi Jens,

You are absolutely right! I mixed up my pictures. The one showing Hohenzollern castle is from the permanent Schreiber exhibition in Esslingen, not from the Siegmund exhibition.

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Monday, November 14th 2005, 1:16pm

Early J.F. Schreiber Architectural Model

Hi Jens,
Thank you for placing the age of this interesting model. I now have more respect for its historical importance to the craft of card modelling. The early precision and attention to detail is present here. Acquired the publication from Peter Heesch at H&B Precision Card Models, Virginia.
John

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 14th 2005, 1:20pm)


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Monday, November 21st 2005, 8:31pm

Curtain Walls

Raising the bastian went well. Three strips of MDF were ripped and placed under the castle. They were deliberately too high. Testing with a piece of wall, they were progressively ripped down 1mm at a time until the wall fit properly under the edge of the courtyard. Then the strips were cut into appropriate lengths and half lapped to fit together to form a grid.
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  • Substructure.jpg

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (May 17th 2006, 6:43pm)


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Monday, November 21st 2005, 8:35pm

RE: Curtain Walls

Then the castle was placed on this grid substructure. I saw nowhere in the instructions any mention of a support system that would prevent this castle from sagging in the middle. I'm sure it would have been assumed that one was required.
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  • Supported Bastion.jpg

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Monday, November 21st 2005, 8:40pm

RE: Curtain Walls

Here is a close up shot of the wall meeting the courtyard.
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  • Wall sans Wall Walk.jpg

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Monday, November 21st 2005, 8:42pm

RE: Curtain Walls

And this shot shows the added wall walk. Note the thick join and dotted lines. This is one disadvantage of working with thick cardboard parts. This joint will require some serious painting.
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  • Wall Walk Added.jpg

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Monday, November 21st 2005, 9:08pm

I'm really looking forward to hearing about your experiences of touching-up those corners. The inside corners must be particularly difficult to paint, once mounted. Don't forget to tell us all about the technique, colours, etc., you used, once the deed is done...

Leif
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Tuesday, November 22nd 2005, 2:23am

Leif,
Well, before the deed actually begins, let me share a find at the art studio. I asked about the clear acrylic, but was told that it went on white and ended up transparent. I began to wonder if adding transparent water colours would achieve the desired opaque effect desired. So it was suggested that I try 'Gouache' paints. Never heard of them. They are opaque water colours. Twelve tubes come in a set. The tubes are about twice the size of the water colour tubes I have been using. So, the stage is set for experimentation.

I forgot to mention that the fit of the curtain walls was outstanding. This is rather surprising, since there were over 150 lineal centimetres of wall that folded back and forth around the perimeter of the castle courtyard. One would expect a subtle amount of wall distance to be altered in the scoring and folding processes and that these discrepancies would magnify themselves as distances increased. And yet, when the last section of wall rounded the last corner, it landed precisely on the starting tab that was waiting patiently for closure.
John

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 22nd 2005, 2:24am)


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Tuesday, November 22nd 2005, 10:27am

Re: Gouache colours

John, about gouache colours - I just recently learned the same thing from Oliver ("Swiftsword", from Massachusetts), who is making a most readable report of his build of the "Oslabya" (a ship) on this site. (See this post, in both English and German.)

I asked him about his obviously very deft touching-up technique, and he strongly recommends gouache. He uses a few tubes of standard colours, and mixes them to get the right nuance. Once there, he doesn't have to worry about the mixture drying up, since gouache left on the palette is readily dissolved in water and can be used again and again.

I have yet to try it, but it sounds very attractive - and it's such a classic technique, of course! The draw-back, it seems to me, would be that the colours you apply to the model will dissolve if you add a layer of clear acrylic on top. I am thinking that you would probably need to fix them by spraying with a fixative.

I am looking forward to your experiences of gouache. Please tell us all about the pro's and con's as you find them.

Best & good luck

Leif
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

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Monday, November 28th 2005, 6:29pm

RE: Gouache colours

Leif,
I am most impressed with the gouache opaque water colours!! We must get the word out to cardmodellers that this is the way to go when it comes to colouring edges and scored folds in paper. The paint actually has enough body that it can FILL the broken surface of the printed paper at the scored line. They literally flow on the paper and in one controlled stroke completely cover objectionable stitch lines, gap filling glue, and scored and bent edges.

Here are two photos to illustrate. The first one shows the raw corner of a building. In the past, with ordinary water colours, I would be fussing with coat after coat of paint in order to cover the stitches. And often, the next coat would lift the previous one. The second shot shows the applied gouache paint. One stroke down the seam. It may need a little touching up, but what a difference. Mixing is a breeze. This yellow was Yellow Ochre added to white.

So there you go. Gouache it is.

Cheers...John
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 30th 2005, 5:50pm)


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Monday, November 28th 2005, 6:30pm

RE: Gouache colours

And after...
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Wednesday, November 30th 2005, 3:50pm

Landscaping

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I do not like to add artificial trees to a paper model. However, in this case, trees and landscaing are an integral part of the architecure. One tree, the King's Lime is specifically named and numbered. The courtyards are virtual forests. The artist supplied paper trees. I will keep the large significant trees and try synthetic trees for the smaller ones.
John has attached the following image:
  • Courtyard Tree.jpg

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 30th 2005, 3:53pm)


John

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37

Wednesday, November 30th 2005, 3:54pm

RE: Landscaping

The smaller trees to be replaced with synthetic ones.
John has attached the following image:
  • Small Trees.jpg

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 30th 2005, 3:55pm)


John

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Wednesday, November 30th 2005, 4:02pm

RE: Landscaping

The main grass sections printed on the model will be altered as well. They are printed in a glossy, solid green colour. This seems odd, because other areas on the model show care in rendering the grass with shades of yellow and small black ink strokes to represent sprigs of grass.
To soften the look, synthetic grass has been applied over these areas. The shot below shows the beginning of this process.
John has attached the following image:
  • Courtyard Grass.jpg

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "John" (Nov 30th 2005, 4:05pm)


Leif Ohlsson

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Wednesday, November 30th 2005, 4:02pm

Gouache colours - great to get confirmation, and living proof. Really convincing stuff!

Now I know what to wish for at Christmas!

Leif

PS. Grateful for some tips on a suitable set of tubes (and I look forward to all those lovely names, burnt sienna, yellow ochre...)
Dankbar für die Gelegenheit auf Englisch schreiben zu dürfen, kann aber Antworten problemlos auf Deutsch lesen.

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Wednesday, November 30th 2005, 5:33pm

Michael,
Good point. I obtained a cheaper variety as well; 12 - 12 ml tubes for $12.95 CDN (That's cheap!) It says Fine Art Quality on the box (Jackson paint) but it was indicated to me that they were 'student quality'.
John

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