Lieber Besucher, herzlich willkommen bei: Kartonbau.de - Alles rund um Papiermodelle, Kartonmodellbau und Bastelbogen. Falls dies Ihr erster Besuch auf dieser Seite ist, lesen Sie sich bitte die Hilfe durch. Dort wird Ihnen die Bedienung dieser Seite näher erläutert. Darüber hinaus sollten Sie sich registrieren, um alle Funktionen dieser Seite nutzen zu können. Benutzen Sie das Registrierungsformular, um sich zu registrieren oder informieren Sie sich ausführlich über den Registrierungsvorgang. Falls Sie sich bereits zu einem früheren Zeitpunkt registriert haben, können Sie sich hier anmelden.

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

1

Freitag, 18. Januar 2008, 10:26

Catedral de Palencia - 1/250

Merino's Palencia cathedral is not as complicated as Burgos. Nevertheless, it has 330 parts, many on them rather small.
I start with pictures of the kit's covers and the main construction diagram.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-00.jpg
  • Palencia C-01.jpg

2

Freitag, 18. Januar 2008, 14:44

RE: Catedral de Palencia - 1/250

Ricardo-san,

I thought architecture model is complecated.
May I ask are there any recommendable relatively easy model consists of small number of parts for novice?

Best regards,

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

3

Montag, 21. Januar 2008, 15:35

@ Yu – the novice you are referring to is yourself 8o? If so, it was a good joke :D
To answer more seriously – apart from the models fit quality, I think the difficulty (in any kind of paper model) is related to the size of the parts, the joints between curved surfaces and the gluing steps that have to be made in sequence – when something depends on a previous gluing and that one on the preceding and so on. Planes and boats often score high on all 3 criteria and you are a master on both :). As so, if you want a model with few parts, not necessarily easy, I’d suggest Schreiber’s Maria Laach (easy) or I. Durable’s Sainte Chapelle (more complicated but very pretty). Schreiber’s newest small church in Stuttgart is surely also a good choice. Erkotyp’s kits are among my favourites but any small model often has a fair share of parts. I bought the Homoli church last Christmas and it is also a very nice kit.
»Ricleite« hat folgendes Bild angehängt:
  • Palencia C-02.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

4

Dienstag, 22. Januar 2008, 10:07

The roofs have the standard Merino printed pattern over a very solid colour. The small details are also for the roofs and, interestingly, they have a triangular base.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-03.jpg
  • Palencia C-04.jpg

5

Dienstag, 22. Januar 2008, 13:08

Zitat

Original von Ricleite
I think the difficulty (in any kind of paper model) is related to the size of the parts, the joints between curved surfaces and the gluing steps that have to be made in sequence – when something depends on a previous gluing and that one on the preceding and so on.


Thanks a lot for tips and suggestion about kits.
I am not a novice paper modeler but thought there must be more to architecture model than meet the eye.

Thanks again.

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

6

Mittwoch, 23. Januar 2008, 14:52

You are welcome, Yu. We all have noticed that you are definitely not a novice paper modeller ;)
Well, moving on with Palencia...
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-05.jpg
  • Palencia C-06.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

7

Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2008, 14:30

The cathedral has a single tower, with an octagonal base. Each of the 8 buttresses glues onto two faces, making the task a bit more complicated. Instead of the usual card strip at the buttress back, I used some transverse card bits to fix the shape and make gluing easier.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-07.jpg
  • Palencia C-08.jpg

Glue me!

Meister

  • »Glue me!« ist männlich

Beiträge: 1 844

Registrierungsdatum: 21. Mai 2006

Beruf: Heilpädagoge, Jazzpianist, Cartoonist

  • Nachricht senden

8

Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2008, 15:45

This is going to be beautiful!!!

Regards from Gloomy
Dauerbaustelle: Prinz Eugen
Etwas Fertiges: Mikro-Neuschwanstein
Mit guter Chance auf Fertigstellung: Die Prager Burg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

9

Freitag, 25. Januar 2008, 14:55

Hopefully so, Glue me!, but the colours are rather dull :(
I enclose two more pictures - the upper bells and the complete tower.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-09.jpg
  • Palencia C-10.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

10

Montag, 28. Januar 2008, 10:16

The cathedral has a fair share of flying buttresses. To build them, I'm using the same method as in Burgos, because it comes out very well.
The only problem is that it involves cutting a lot of card...
»Ricleite« hat folgendes Bild angehängt:
  • Palencia C-11.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

11

Dienstag, 29. Januar 2008, 10:06

The buttresses are broader at the base. That means another part and two card bits for each one.
»Ricleite« hat folgendes Bild angehängt:
  • Palencia C-12.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

12

Mittwoch, 30. Januar 2008, 10:06

Concluding the buttresses saga, with the small pinnacles. 3 of the buttresses are slightly shorter than the other 9.
»Ricleite« hat folgendes Bild angehängt:
  • Palencia C-13.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

13

Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2008, 10:04

The rear part of the cathedral has over 40 vertical fold lines! For anyone with ordinary sized hands with less than 20 fingers each (that's my case...) the reasonable approach is to make a big card template.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-14.jpg
  • Palencia C-15.jpg
  • Palencia C-16.jpg

14

Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2008, 14:26

As I suspected, this looks not easy...
Anyway, great build as usual!!!

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

15

Freitag, 1. Februar 2008, 10:25

Thanks, Yu :) but, with a suitable card template, it is not so difficult.
Adjusting the hole on the terrace to fit the tower was rather tricky. I wonder why Merino choose to make the tower’s rear buttresses right down to the base level, instead of terrace level. It would allow a much simpler terrace/tower interface. Perhaps they like to make our life harder :(...
I enclose two pictures of the lower/rear buttresses.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-17.jpg
  • Palencia C-18.jpg

16

Freitag, 1. Februar 2008, 12:07

Zitat

Originally posted by Ricleite
Perhaps they like to make our life harder :(...


I think they like to check your skill out... then, after seeing your build, to me, trouble is that they will make it harder :(

Thank you for showing us lower/rear buttresses.

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

17

Freitag, 8. Februar 2008, 10:53

Good joke, Yu :D but if they make it too hard I’ll follow a different path for assembly. It already happened with the buttresses and it will surely happen again…
Today's pictures show the lateral entrances and their big buttresses. On the smaller side, is the well and a tower with a tiny bell.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-19.jpg
  • Palencia C-20.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

18

Montag, 11. Februar 2008, 10:14

The buttresses of the forward part of the cathedral have 4 parts each and, in my view, they should have 5. The problem is in the pinnacles, to the upper left of the first picture. They are drawn in a single part, with a complicated fold method. I tried it just once. For the others, I choose to split each part into four (main, pinnacle sides and rear) and add a card bit. The end result is the same but the assembly process is much easier.
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-21.jpg
  • Palencia C-22.jpg

19

Montag, 11. Februar 2008, 14:46

Zitat

Original von Ricleite
if they make it too hard I’ll follow a different path for assembly.


So, I must keep an eye on your build until you take out ace in the hole from up your sleeve 8)

Tino

Fortgeschrittener

  • »Tino« ist männlich

Beiträge: 251

Registrierungsdatum: 24. September 2004

  • Nachricht senden

20

Montag, 11. Februar 2008, 17:15

Perfect build as usual from you Ricardo! I like it very much!

Yu: I think the Ricardo already took the ace from his sleeve! We can only see the final result not the ace. ;) :D
Regards,

Diamantino

John

Meister

  • »John« ist männlich

Beiträge: 2 681

Registrierungsdatum: 4. Oktober 2005

Beruf: retired school teacher

  • Nachricht senden

21

Montag, 11. Februar 2008, 22:38

Ricardo, your approach to modifying the part with the complex folds is the essence of good card modelling. Rather than bull ahead with parts that are suspect, you stopped, assessed the situation and came up with a solution that made construction easier.

I guess it comes with experience, but some of the models we make do require a step back to improve their design. I do not mean alter the models, but rather see a way around a weak construction method. I think I can name the models that would not turned out as well if this hadn't been done.

And then there is the fun of engineering your way through these bumps in the road!

Love this card modelling Ricardo. Beautiful structure rising again under your expert hands.

Cheers...John

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

22

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2008, 10:30

Tino, how could you? 8o It was a secret :D :rotwerd:
John, you go straight to the heart of it. We both like to get as close to possible to what the designer had in mind as the end result, but not necessarily following the same path :)
I enclose the last construction pictures. Hopefully, there is something interesting there.
On the first one, apart from the usual card template, note that I often don’t cut the tabs on the proposed alignments. If the tabs don’t overlap, I prefer to have them broad at the ends because it makes folding easier. With a very sharp-ended tab, it is much harder to get a neat fold. Sometimes, when there is a need for a sharp-ended tab, I cut a broad one, make the fold and cut the excess. The result is better.
On the last picture, there is a complicated alternative to John’s shelf method. I used it because the roof part has big indentations (for the buttresses) at both extremities. The card strip helps to avoid deforming the part while gluing. The four L-shaped paper parts allow me to put some pressure both at roof top and at the base. As so, they work as a double shelf – both vertically and the horizontally…
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia C-23.jpg
  • Palencia C-24.jpg
  • Palencia C-25.jpg

John

Meister

  • »John« ist männlich

Beiträge: 2 681

Registrierungsdatum: 4. Oktober 2005

Beruf: retired school teacher

  • Nachricht senden

23

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2008, 12:39

Hello Ricardo,

A most interesting post above. Thank you for sharing your brilliant method of leaving material around a tab that is intended to be cut as a pointed tab. That tip is worth its weight in gold!!

Of course! Bending the fuller tab (if possible) makes so much sense. Now I know why my pointed tabs will delaminate slightly at the very corners of the fold. It's the angle where they are weakest that allows them to 'tear out' as it were.

Ricardo, this one ranks up there with using slits only for tabs folding around a convex curve.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

John

24

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2008, 14:02

Hello Recardo,

Let me also express my appreciation for telling us "broad-cutting" technique. After "digital-cutting", that you told us last year, I got part of your aces :]

Here's to broa-minded modeler's broad array of tips that you developed over the years :prost:

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

25

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2008, 15:55

@ Yu – you know, keeping an open mind is the best way to let the cards come and go, as needed. Sometimes, I’m lucky enough to put my hands on a good one. I bet you have a fair share of good cards, too :)
@ John – before you call me a terrorist, I’d better point out that the paper looses strength in the fold/unfold process. To get rid of excess paper in order to make a pointed tab, I often use scissors or a very sharp knife with a lot of care. It is so easy to tear the paper apart, along the fold line, when applying tangential stress with a knife! A possible solution is to cut in two or three gentle passes instead of a single, strong one. With scissors, there should be no problem because the stress is applied perpendicularly to the paper plane. The same effect is obtained by pressing (vertically) the knife to cut the paper. You only cut a few millimetres at a time but, well, the tabs are usually slim…

John

Meister

  • »John« ist männlich

Beiträge: 2 681

Registrierungsdatum: 4. Oktober 2005

Beruf: retired school teacher

  • Nachricht senden

26

Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2008, 12:36

Ricardo, at first, I wasn't sure I understood your last post. I think you misunderstood me when I mentioned the word 'tear out'. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the folding of the pointed tab and how the top surface at the very corners of can lift up a bit - not the pulling out or tearing of a tab when they are being cut. I thought that was why you increased the material at the corner of the tab by reducing the angle. I like that idea. I also agree that scissors are a wise tool to use when cutting tabs. Nice sharp ones that cut right to the very edge of the closed blades.

While we are being technical here, have you noticed that if you burnish the fold line of parts that are extending out a bit due to the folding process, they move back in line with the original score cut? I don't do it regularly, but when a part has to fit tightly between two other parts, burnishing the fold with a spoon shaped burnisher or a bone burnisher reduces the width of the part.

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

27

Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2008, 15:22

John, you know that, not surprisingly, I find it easier to express myself in Portuguese than in English and, this time, there might be a 'tear' too much. Let me see if can put it in other words :rolleyes:
When folding a sharp-ended tab, the paper may find it more convenient to fold at an angle near the tip, because it leads faster to the paper extremity than the intended fold line. In the process, as you say, the outer tip can delaminate, most probably close to the half cut level that has been made. In this process, the delaminated tip will tend to go upwards. Folding the tab before making it sharp, as I suggested, is a good way to overcome the problem. The point that I mentioned in the second post regards the care that has to be taken when removing the unwanted part of the tab, to make it sharp-ended. As the paper gets weaker with the previous fold/unfold process, the whole tab can easily separate from the part, along the half-cut/fold line when applying force to cut the unwanted tab section.
Regarding your other point, I regularly use my middle finger's nail, pressing with the thumb, to pass over cut and fold lines. The nail gets somewhat polished in the process :rotwerd:
It is very useful to soften the edges and, as you say, reduce some delamination that may occur very close to the fold line when folding. The problem is very much related to paper quality and to the half-cut you make to mark the fold line. If the half-cut is shallow, the remaining part of the paper may try to fold with a far-from-zero radius. In the process, the pre-cut paper surface may want to separate and go up, probably at both sides of the fold line.
Pressing the cut and fold lines (with the nail or a spoon) is also useful when using pens to paint them - they will take less ink and do so in a more uniform way. The trick is: press first - paint latter ;)

John

Meister

  • »John« ist männlich

Beiträge: 2 681

Registrierungsdatum: 4. Oktober 2005

Beruf: retired school teacher

  • Nachricht senden

28

Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2008, 16:54

An excellent explanation Ricardo and very helpful. I admire not only your card modelling skills but your mastery of two languages!

Didn't know that burnishing would unify the painting of edges. Great tip. You strike again.

Cheers...John

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

29

Freitag, 15. Februar 2008, 10:07

Thanks again, John, and let's go on to Palencia's final pictures :)
Some details...
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia D-01.jpg
  • Palencia D-03.jpg
  • Palencia D-04.jpg
  • Palencia D-05.jpg
  • Palencia D-06.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

30

Freitag, 15. Februar 2008, 10:08

...aircraft views...
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia G-01.jpg
  • Palencia G-02.jpg
  • Palencia G-03.jpg
  • Palencia G-04.jpg

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

31

Freitag, 15. Februar 2008, 10:14

...lateral and top views. Overall, I found the kit very interesting. Very good fit but some awkward assemblies. The colours are not very pretty but I guess the real building is well represented.
My next model will, for a change, be a submarine - GPM's Seehund. The next Merino? I don't know, yet. Most probably, Leon or Palma de Maiorca cathedrals...
»Ricleite« hat folgende Bilder angehängt:
  • Palencia L-01.jpg
  • Palencia L-02.jpg
  • Palencia L-03.jpg
  • Palencia L-04.jpg
  • Palencia T-01.jpg

John

Meister

  • »John« ist männlich

Beiträge: 2 681

Registrierungsdatum: 4. Oktober 2005

Beruf: retired school teacher

  • Nachricht senden

32

Freitag, 15. Februar 2008, 11:18

Congratulations Ricardo. A keeper.
John

33

Freitag, 15. Februar 2008, 12:14

Beautiful as usual =D> =D> =D>
Conguratulations!!!

Tino

Fortgeschrittener

  • »Tino« ist männlich

Beiträge: 251

Registrierungsdatum: 24. September 2004

  • Nachricht senden

34

Samstag, 16. Februar 2008, 14:29

very impressive work Ricardo! @)

Congratulations for another master piece! :prost:
Regards,

Diamantino

günter

Profi

  • »günter« ist männlich

Beiträge: 1 467

Registrierungsdatum: 16. September 2004

Beruf: Lehrer

  • Nachricht senden

35

Samstag, 16. Februar 2008, 21:17

Hi Ricardo,
well done! As usually :].

Greetings

Guenter
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gruß

Günter

  • »Ricleite« ist männlich
  • »Ricleite« ist der Autor dieses Themas

Beiträge: 1 044

Registrierungsdatum: 24. Januar 2006

  • Nachricht senden

36

Montag, 18. Februar 2008, 09:55

Thanks to you all :) Going under, now...

Glue me!

Meister

  • »Glue me!« ist männlich

Beiträge: 1 844

Registrierungsdatum: 21. Mai 2006

Beruf: Heilpädagoge, Jazzpianist, Cartoonist

  • Nachricht senden

37

Montag, 18. Februar 2008, 14:59

Very, very, very beautiful!!!

Gloomy
Dauerbaustelle: Prinz Eugen
Etwas Fertiges: Mikro-Neuschwanstein
Mit guter Chance auf Fertigstellung: Die Prager Burg

Social Bookmarks