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John

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41

Donnerstag, 24. Juli 2008, 23:47

RE: The Chapel

A nice penthouse here. It looks like it was made with only two parts. There are five. Three formers are inside to ensure that the walls are parallel, the corners form right angles and the roof overhang at the sides is equal. I think you know what large opening, number 15 is for...
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42

Donnerstag, 24. Juli 2008, 23:47

RE: The Chapel

...the chapel.
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43

Freitag, 25. Juli 2008, 10:04

I'd use a different method for the roof, John. It involves making 2 card templates shaped as the plan base of the chappel. One of them would be placed at the bottom, glued to the tabs, and another just below the roof level. They would fix the angles between walls and provide a solid base to glue the roof.
I see that your method works well, too, which is not surprising - there are often different ways to get from A to B ;)

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44

Freitag, 25. Juli 2008, 11:10

Well said Ricardo. I like your method very much for this application. Now we have given two techniques for such situations.

The shelf method will come into its own with the installation of the aisle on the north side of the church. It has a shed roof. The higher back edge of the roof will rest on a shelf and the lower front will have its tab to pre-glue the front wall.

It's all in the sharing of information Ricardo. The Internet has really enhanced the skills used in Cardmodelling. Agree?

John

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45

Samstag, 26. Juli 2008, 14:18

The shelf method discussed above works well when you have to glue a sloping roof against a vertical wall. If the angle of the roof downward and away from the wall is severe, it is usually difficult to get fingers or a tool up from below to smooth out the glued tab that will attach the roof to the wall. Far better to be able to gently lower the roof down onto a glued shelf.

Here is such an application for this method. The roof here is to be reinforced with card, so there is no need for the tab at the top of the roof. When I was setting up for this first photo, I was concentrating on the photo and the layout so much, that I cut off the wrong tab! Not a problem. Later, I cut off both the upper and lower tabs. Here is the roof in those first shots.
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46

Samstag, 26. Juli 2008, 14:23

Next, the shelf is glued in place. When I first started doing this, I just glued a strip of card along the wall below the roof line. But I was never sure that the strip was perfectly parallel to the ground below. It may have slipped when being glued.

If the card is a complete panel, as seen here, the guesswork is gone.
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47

Samstag, 26. Juli 2008, 14:30

As I mentioned, I cut off the wrong tab on the roof. I reinforced the low wall with card thereby creating another shelf. The mistake worked to my advantage. The right photo shows the front edge of the roof nicely attached with a blue angled strip. The shelf positioned the roof nicely while this strip was glued into place.
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48

Samstag, 26. Juli 2008, 14:38

The assembled wall/roof unit is then lowered into position. The top edge of the roof gently settles down onto a bead of glue. I do not brush out the glue. I have found that a bead of glue allows a part to move a bit - giving you a certain amount of 'wriggle room'. A brushed out bead of glue sticks a part immediately upon contact. (I'm talking about white glue here...)
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49

Samstag, 26. Juli 2008, 14:39

The finished assembly in place...
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50

Samstag, 26. Juli 2008, 15:16

A tower closes the aisle. The fit of parts here has been excellent.

This church needs an apse...
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51

Samstag, 26. Juli 2008, 15:30

Hi John,

this is just beautiful.
I appriciate the print as well as your skill.

Have a nice weekend

Hans Gerd
Hans Gerd Schöneberger verstarb nach langer Erkrankung am 29.12.2010. Wir halten Hans Gerd mit seinen Beiträgen hier im Forum in lieber Erinnerung und denken mit Freude an die gemeinsam verbrachte Zeit im Forum und auf den zahlreichen Treffen.

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52

Sonntag, 27. Juli 2008, 17:16

Thanks Hans Gerd.
I appreciate your comments.

The apse is now in place and the church is glued down permanently to its display/storage base.

The next task is to begin the many buttresses that create external support for the walls. The buttresses on this model are designed a little bit differently. Usually they are designed to fold up with one side, the front face and the other side along with the stone caps that cover the step backs. These buttresses are made with two separate pieces - a left side and the front face, and the other side. The stone caps are added later. More work, but a nice challenge. (Adding the caps as a finish feels good. It's the way a mason would have done it.)
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53

Montag, 28. Juli 2008, 16:10

The polygonal apse with its tall buttresses anchors the east end of the church nicely. It does not seem to need an ambulatory or apsidal chapels.

The perimeter of the structure is now closed. The while vertical strips along the north and south sides of the church are rather jarring right now. All that will change as we begin to construct buttresses and add ornamentations.
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54

Montag, 28. Juli 2008, 16:27

John, your build pace is amazing considering how much engineering you put into your builds. I think this may be one of your best.

regards
best regards
mit herzlichen grussen

Fred

In Build:
Panzerkreuzer Infanta Maria Teresa

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55

Dienstag, 29. Juli 2008, 13:31

John

Stunning - I am offline for two weeks (for various reasons), and get back to find you have almost finished another amazing model, and still found time to show us the stages. I shall be following the remainder of your build in a rather more timely fashion - one blink and I'll have missed it!

Best wishes,
Alan

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56

Dienstag, 29. Juli 2008, 14:29

Good Morning Fred.
Thank you. Yes, this church is really an enjoyable build.

Hi Alan,
People have commented on the speed of my builds, but I guess I'm not aware of that. Each day is a new challenge on this builds and time flies when you're having fun!

Hello Hagen.
You ask a very good question. The overall fit of parts has been excellent. This is a good publisher. The only problems I had involved arches around two portals. That was easily remedied.
Thanks for asking.

We begin the smaller details now in the northeast quadrant (the area around the chapel). The buttresses appear to be sitting on the roof, but of course they run on down through the addition to the foundation.

All the buttresses on the sides of the building have the same motif. They are topped with ornamental steeple towers. The towers sit on the buttress' small gable styled caps. Some are small and tricky to build. More on that later.

Here's a colour change for some interest.
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57

Dienstag, 29. Juli 2008, 14:30

And the real thing...
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58

Donnerstag, 31. Juli 2008, 18:29

Behind the Transept

The northeast corner of the church is an interesting area.
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59

Freitag, 1. August 2008, 01:02

Work begins now on this nave aisle side of the church.

The church to date...
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60

Freitag, 1. August 2008, 05:24

In my case, from time to time white color of gluing tabs show up after gluing them to adjacent parts. Perhaps that because scoring and folding are not properly done.
Mind telling usually where do you score - I mean back side of paer or front? What kind of tool do you use for scoring?

Thanks in advance,

John

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61

Freitag, 1. August 2008, 19:03

Hi Yu,

I'll give you some information that works for me. That is in no way saying that my way is the best way. As Ricardo has said in this thread, there are many ways to get from A to B.

You are asking about two things. First, the issue of tab material showing up after fastening a part to another? Yes, when bent, the tab can 'swell' out from the scored line. The thickness of the paper has something to do with this. If this happens, I simply burnish or rub along the crease with a tool or a fingernail. That usually pushes the tab back cleanly to the score line. This is done before attaching the part. Follow?

Now the matter of scoring. When I fist started modelling in paper, I thought the idea was to simply 'crease' the paper with a round nosed tool on the top surface of the paper. Much later I read a suggestion to use the ball end of an old ball point pen to score lines. You see, the top membrane of the printed paper stays intact. No need to paint edges!

I don't think this method is used by most cardmodellers today. I believe it is agreed that it is best to cut through the top 1/3 of the paper, incising the printed membrane. You are then guaranteed a clean break when folding. Of course, this results in more work - edge colouring. But for most of us, this is part of the creative process.

Here are some photos of the scoring tools and methods I use. The cutting tool and the scoring tool are #11 X-Acto blades. (Photo 1) You will note that the tip of the top one is broken off or simply worn down. It's the scoring one. I've used it now for over a year. It's dull enough not to slice right through a fold line, but sharp enough to cut the top surface. A subtle thing.

Most folds are made away from you. You score the top surface and bend the paper away from you. However, if there are 'X's" marked at the end of the fold dash lines you score on the back side and fold towards you. (Photo 2) Slits are made beyond the part at the 'X's" that penetrate down through the paper. (Photo 3) Then you turn the paper over, line up the slits with your ruler and score the line. (Photo 4)

By the way, if you ever see an"O" through the dash lines beyond the part instead of 'X's", you make the slits, turn the paper over, line them up with a ruler but join them with a pencil. This indicates a join line for a part to be glued there.

A tip for bending very small parts is to use the jaws of a needle nosed set of pliers. (Photo 5) Lined up against one side of the line, the jaws hold one side of the fold firm and undisturbed while you bend the other side of the fold. (like bending metal in a brake) In this photo, I'm just demonstrating the use of the pliers. The part would actually be cut out first before bending. This reminds me - it is generally a good idea to score all parts before cutting them out. It's also customary to edge paint all parts before gluing them in place.

I apologize Yu, if I am giving too much information here. You are a skilled builder and probably are away ahead of me on such matters. But the information may be generally useful on this thread.

cheers...John
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62

Freitag, 1. August 2008, 19:56

Hi John,

First of all, let me express my appreciation to you for the kind and detailed explanation taking the trouble in answering my question setting aside your own modeling time and trying to understand my clumsy writing.
In case of ship and aircraft, paper is relatively thicker compared to architecture model so I usually groove backside of folding line and cut off gluing tabs if any but this method does not work on architecture model because of thinner paper.

About first issue I understand I need to be more careful to get rid of swelled out tabs.
Second issue, I’ll try all the method you showed us so that I will know how to deal with different cases.

Thank you again for your kindness.

Best wishes,

John

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63

Freitag, 1. August 2008, 22:41

You are very welcome Yu. Sharing information enriches us all.

You and I have mentioned cutting off tabs. I do not want to leave the false impression that it is a good thing to do this on a regular basis. I see that you tried fitting one of the towers with tabs and one without. In that case, the tabs really are necessary to hold the walls as they bend through their curve.

The time to get rid of tabs is when they hinder a clean, crisp look. This occurs often on very small parts. For example, on a small roof dormer, the tabs that glue the dormer onto the roof can actually 'spring' the dormer off the roof leaving exposed tab edges. Better to cut the tabs off and glue a card former inside the dormer flush with edges that will mate with the roof. Then the dormer goes down onto the roof with a nice internal glue surface and edges that sit snugly onto the roof. Follow?

If a small part is reinforced with a card template, the thickness of the piece with the added template becomes the gluing surface. No need for tabs. I will be showing this on small buttresses on this build soon.

John

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64

Samstag, 2. August 2008, 14:55

Here is an example of where needle nosed pliers really come in handy.These little octagonal steeples were made using the edge of the pliers as the break point for the eight bends in each steeple. The tab was folded back flat and then the steeple was squashed flat with four facets lying against each other - the last one gluing itself to the tab. Then the steeple was opened and shaped octagonal.

You will note that there is a bit of white showing. That will disappear when the steeple is edge painted. I did not paint the eight edges first.
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65

Samstag, 2. August 2008, 15:06

Why didn't I come up with the idea of squashing flat with four facets lying against each other. Like this case I was single mindedly trying to keep octagonal shape during assembly

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66

Samstag, 2. August 2008, 15:13

Yes, Yu, and squashing squares and rectangles works well too. You see, if opposite sides are equal and parallel, everything has to line up when the polygon is flattened. It's a sure way to ensure that the tab corner closes the shape perfectly.

Remember trying to close a rectangle by just gluing the tab and trying to hold the last wall or whatever against the tab with the shape sitting up on the desk? Now you can create polygons with nicely finished corners.!

John

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67

Sonntag, 3. August 2008, 00:11

The buttresses in this area of the church are very small. Using the tiny tabs on them is way above my skill level. The plan will be to cut them off and build up the buttresses with card.

There's my two cents worth...
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68

Sonntag, 3. August 2008, 15:10

The process begins. You can see here that the thickness of the right side of the buttress provides a very nice gluing edge for the front skin of the buttress.

Another advantage of getting rid of the tabs here, is that the right side of the buttress can now be used as a pattern for another green piece that will be glued inside the left side. The fronts of the buttresses will not be reinforced. As you can see, they will have to hinge and close on the green edge on the right.

Onward...
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69

Sonntag, 3. August 2008, 15:47

Hi John,

I never thought of this method.
By gluing laminated sheets, paper straightens so that easy to glue the other side on it.
Thanks I will use this method. This will be of wide application.
This must be so called “deceptively easy” :)

John

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70

Sonntag, 3. August 2008, 20:09

Yes, Yu, a whole new set of techniques in architectural work. You've just scratched the surface!

How does this area of work compare to your mastery of aircraft and naval vessels?

The card makes gluing up the buttresses easier and much more accurate. Without the stability of the card, I would think that the parts could twist and rack easily as you glue them up.

I'm using the card for the first time here in this application. Usually, when the buttresses are three sided, a strip of card across the back is adequate. It was the tiny tabs and the two part construction of the parts that prompted the use of card. I like it. Something to consider for larger buttresses in the future.

In looking for something to fill the void between the walls of the buttress, I came upon some stripwood just the right thickness. On the right, I am testing the fit of the first buttress in this section of the church.
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71

Sonntag, 3. August 2008, 20:15

John,

what shall I say...

It's very interesting to see that beautiful build growing.
Bis die Tage...

Helmut

"Einmal sah jemand die Häftlingsnummer 78651, die auf meinem Arm eintätowiert ist, und sagte: "Das ist wohl Ihre Garderobennummer?" Danach trug ich jahrelang nur langärmelige Pullover."
In Erinnerung an Simone Veil, † 30. Juni 2017



Im Bau: CAP SAN DIEGO (roko)

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72

Dienstag, 5. August 2008, 14:30

Hello Helmut,
Thank you for your kind comment. This church build reminds me very much of Leon Schuijt's fine details on the Dutch model of St. Bavo Cathedral in Haarlem.

I'v run into a bit of a snag with the detailing on top of the small buttresses. I just can't fold up the piece I'm holding in my hand without it breaking apart at the folds. the score lines are not only close together, they oppose each other when bent. It's like trying to tame a drunken accordion. Then it has to wrap itself around a central tower that is elevated.

If I were designing this assembly, I would have designed each little facade independently.

So I cut everything apart and am now in the process of building everything back up.
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73

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 10:12

John, I'm afraid to be suffering from the Wednesday-morning-syndrome because I didn't understand how those parts are supposed to fold :rotwerd:
The printed parts have 4 'windows' but the parts you are holding on your hand have only 2 ?(
Where are the other 2?

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74

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 14:15

Good morning Ricardo.
I didn't know that Wednesdays could be that bad! Just kidding.

You are quite right. There are four windows or faces; one for each of the four points of the compass around a central tower. I'm holding the paper part with all four faces joined for folding. Then I'm holding just a sample of two faces sharing a card strip and then I've focused in on just one face.

I don't know how anyone could fold up this part with all the right angles and then cut 2/3 of two folds up so that they will slip over the parapet.

In this photo you will see the front face glued in place on the buttress. Lying on the ground are the other three faces and the little tower with its steeple. Notice that it has been lengthened with a white column. This will elevate the part so that it will rise above the four faces that will bear against it. I can't imagine trying to hang this little tower in the air while gluing on the other three faces.
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75

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 14:49

Aaaahhhh! Now I see it! Not surprising because it is no longer Wednesday morning down here in Portugal ;)
You are right - having closely coupled forward and backward folds means trouble. The paper often chooses to delaminate.
I would have followed exactly the method you describe, I mean, I will, sooner or latter, follow exactly the same method :D
This model gets more appealing by the day :super:

John

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76

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 21:50

To Date

Yes, Ricardo, this is a model of worth.

The north side of the church is now complete. Even without her steeples, she is quite attractive to the eye.
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John

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77

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 21:53

RE: To Date

The north side and the west façade.
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John

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78

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 21:55

RE: To Date

You can see the first blank spot awaiting work on the south side.
(and a base corner that needs some attention...)
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Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »John« (6. August 2008, 21:58)


John

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79

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 21:56

RE: To Date

Up close...
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John

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80

Mittwoch, 6. August 2008, 21:57

RE: To Date

...and personal.
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